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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2421
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jgav wrote:
Tin Pot wrote:
Mungo wrote:
Unless Iíve missed it I donít know what the training week/month looks like leading up to that race pace brick, or the week after.

I think youíre doing a much higher volume 12hrs/wk?

When Inwas doing that, Iíd finish a 3 week training stint with a long ride or long brick, but I didnt doing at race pace, just aerobic zones, nose breathing stuff, then the next week was my recovery week before ramping up again. I think that worked for me, and fits most peopleís approach for high volume training.

If you include stretching which I am trying to do more of about 13...ish.
It is a hard session and I certainly tone it down a few days beforehand swim core stretch the days afterwards.
It is done religiously after a rest day and is the main focus of the surrounding fortnight.
Haver?
Half?


Yep, half. Iím probably not scared enough yet.


That's my big race for 2018 Smile


Luckily, or perhaps due to my master plan, Iím working out of Tunbridge Wells for the next six months so Iíll plan on a dry run of the bike course, maybe the run too. Wink Wink
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Iron Ď17 16h11, '16 14h30
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Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
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hammerer




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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
t1mmy wrote:
It depends what your goals are?

Last year I did 3 sessions a week - 1 swim, 1 run and 1 bike. This was done around a balance with work and family.

In that time I did a race of some kind every month including a half IM, London Marathon, a 50 mile ultra and IM Wales. Was I as fast as I could have been?... No! I had fun doing it though, was injury free all year and at no point did I come come close to not finishing a race.

Once you have a certain level of base fitness itís all mental and nutrition after that.


That sounds amazing.

I think Hammerer is another one for the low volume approach.

I suspect I need high vol/Low intensity as it worked two years ago, but thatís not an option any more so Ďwe are where we areí etc.

Boy it was depressing looking at last yearís training. So many hopes and dreams, so much free time.


As a coach its not something Id advise but I've gotten around without really training. Its largely mental at all levels. Just be prepared that it'll be a long day. You need to make the most of your time though, but be sensible as just because you are doing 5 hours a week doesn't mean you can smash yourself for 5 hours a week. Keep the runs easy and the turbos hard. Commute as much as possible as the building of fitness from just regular commutes is more than you'd imagine. Swim. I have swum 40k in about 2 years and was still holding 45 second 50's yesterday with 15 SPL so its not much of an issue for me but could be for someone else and that does involve time in the water. I was just knackered after 800m Wink
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a follow up as to how the session/wk approach has been going.

I completed the six week TrainerRoad plan Low volume Olympic base, 2bike/run/swim sessions with the swim being doubled up in a single session. Sometimes so did two actual swims and doubled the planned swim volume.

FTP has gone from 214 to 225
CSS from 2:18 to 1:55
I havenít tested my run yet

Given its February Iím pretty pleased with that, 10s begins on my swim and 5W off last years indoor FTP is pretty good going imo.

Also, it feels good to complete a plan, with only one missed run and one missed swim.

Iím stepping up to 3 bikes/runs and 1 or 2 swims this week. Work location has just changed so itís throwing my plans out a bit, but weíll see how it goes.

Iím almost tempted to stick with Olympic training 2/week as itís going so well.
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Iron Ď17 16h11, '16 14h30
Half Iron '17 7h39, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10 Mile TT '16 00:26:30
Trail 10K '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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Chrace




Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(latecomer to thread)

This time of year I train 3, maybe 4, times per week. Generally max 1 hour per session. This is on par with my average last year when training for the X.

I've had some niggles and injuries (inc. a bike crash) so my FTP was down to 180 a month ago. Last 2 weeks I have put the power down, done only turbo (no running) and FTP is up to 220 and climbing steadily. Swim is a 20 min session on Sundays when the kids are in the small pool with their mum. CSS has dropped from 2:00 to 1:50 with this.

For me this seems fine for this time of year. When the light comes back, roads get less slippery and body a bit more tuned to being back in training it'll automatically climb. Some weekend warrior long days will also increase my average.

But that's just "training" which in my view is merely where you can push through because you can get a shower afterwards. My base comes from biking 2 miles to the station as commute, never taking the lift or escalator (giving me 12 floors of stairs/day) and try to stay on my feet as much as I can. Hence my "training session" are almost always HIIT.

I think "sessions per week" need to include more than the clinical "training sessions" so many sports people count. I do most of my "training" in office work clothes.

I keep thinking of someone on this forum (eJC?) who said it's more important what shoes you wear to work than what you run in. If you walk in 14mm drop 10 hours at work all day then there's no way you can pop out and race in zeroes. Extended to training I take this as "use the whole day, not just your training sessions".
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrace wrote:
(latecomer to thread)

This time of year I train 3, maybe 4, times per week. Generally max 1 hour per session. This is on par with my average last year when training for the X.

I've had some niggles and injuries (inc. a bike crash) so my FTP was down to 180 a month ago. Last 2 weeks I have put the power down, done only turbo (no running) and FTP is up to 220 and climbing steadily. Swim is a 20 min session on Sundays when the kids are in the small pool with their mum. CSS has dropped from 2:00 to 1:50 with this.

For me this seems fine for this time of year. When the light comes back, roads get less slippery and body a bit more tuned to being back in training it'll automatically climb. Some weekend warrior long days will also increase my average.

But that's just "training" which in my view is merely where you can push through because you can get a shower afterwards. My base comes from biking 2 miles to the station as commute, never taking the lift or escalator (giving me 12 floors of stairs/day) and try to stay on my feet as much as I can. Hence my "training session" are almost always HIIT.

I think "sessions per week" need to include more than the clinical "training sessions" so many sports people count. I do most of my "training" in office work clothes.

I keep thinking of someone on this forum (eJC?) who said it's more important what shoes you wear to work than what you run in. If you walk in 14mm drop 10 hours at work all day then there's no way you can pop out and race in zeroes. Extended to training I take this as "use the whole day, not just your training sessions".


Hmm, I get the holistic approach because of course your body is affected by things 24hrs a day but Iím not sure that stretches to getting a significant aerobic base out of a 2 mile ride or walking up stairs occasionally.

So happy to make adjustments in day to day life, but ultimately you have some specific time set aside for training, which is what is meant on this thread.

Am I missing something?
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Iron Ď17 16h11, '16 14h30
Half Iron '17 7h39, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10 Mile TT '16 00:26:30
Trail 10K '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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Chrace




Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably not Tin Pot. My point was more towards the Gym-Bobs that drive to work, sit in meetings all day, drive home, watch tv and go to bed. And then they think they are in awesome shape because they go to the gym 3 times a week.

My targets are generally long distance and silly long hours events (~20 hours). I think you are far speedier than me so more focused on running the body at a higher stress, whereas I simply want it to function for a very long time. In that sense, whatever targets your A-race is appropriate training.

But for me I consider being active as many hours as possible every day, at whatever level, as my bread and butter training. The precious few "training" hours I get are then spent pushing the envelope.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrace wrote:


I keep thinking of someone on this forum (eJC?) who said it's more important what shoes you wear to work than what you run in. If you walk in 14mm drop 10 hours at work all day then there's no way you can pop out and race in zeroes. Extended to training I take this as "use the whole day, not just your training sessions".


something like that....not that it is more important, but that it is an additional consideration....but, yes, you can wear normal shoes and race in flats but you may not be helping yourself in the long run 9no pun intended).

Extended to training - yes, what you do all day certainly contributes...
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2421
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrace wrote:
Probably not Tin Pot. My point was more towards the Gym-Bobs that drive to work, sit in meetings all day, drive home, watch tv and go to bed. And then they think they are in awesome shape because they go to the gym 3 times a week.

My targets are generally long distance and silly long hours events (~20 hours). I think you are far speedier than me so more focused on running the body at a higher stress, whereas I simply want it to function for a very long time. In that sense, whatever targets your A-race is appropriate training.

But for me I consider being active as many hours as possible every day, at whatever level, as my bread and butter training. The precious few "training" hours I get are then spent pushing the envelope.


Itís a good attitude youíve got.

Smile
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Iron Ď17 16h11, '16 14h30
Half Iron '17 7h39, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10 Mile TT '16 00:26:30
Trail 10K '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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jibberjim




Joined: 15 Aug 2008
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Location: Kingston

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Chrace wrote:


I keep thinking of someone on this forum (eJC?) who said it's more important what shoes you wear to work than what you run in. If you walk in 14mm drop 10 hours at work all day then there's no way you can pop out and race in zeroes. Extended to training I take this as "use the whole day, not just your training sessions".


something like that....not that it is more important, but that it is an additional consideration....but, yes, you can wear normal shoes and race in flats but you may not be helping yourself in the long run 9no pun intended).


What if you wear zero drop all the time except running which you do in 8mm drop?
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Chrace




Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jibberjim wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Chrace wrote:


I keep thinking of someone on this forum (eJC?) who said it's more important what shoes you wear to work than what you run in. If you walk in 14mm drop 10 hours at work all day then there's no way you can pop out and race in zeroes. Extended to training I take this as "use the whole day, not just your training sessions".


something like that....not that it is more important, but that it is an additional consideration....but, yes, you can wear normal shoes and race in flats but you may not be helping yourself in the long run 9no pun intended).


What if you wear zero drop all the time except running which you do in 8mm drop?

Find a psychiatrist.
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jibberjim




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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrace wrote:
What if you wear zero drop all the time except running which you do in 8mm drop?

Find a psychiatrist.[/quote]

Damn, I'm pretty sure even my 6 year olds running shoes have a few mm drop, as she asked for more cushioning and none of the zero drop options had any, she is in zero drop all the rest of the time too.

I will look for a family psychiatrist.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jibberjim wrote:
Chrace wrote:
What if you wear zero drop all the time except running which you do in 8mm drop?

Find a psychiatrist.


Damn, I'm pretty sure even my 6 year olds running shoes have a few mm drop, as she asked for more cushioning and none of the zero drop options had any, she is in zero drop all the rest of the time too.

I will look for a family psychiatrist.[/quote]

Makes sense... Smile
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jibberjim wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Chrace wrote:


I keep thinking of someone on this forum (eJC?) who said it's more important what shoes you wear to work than what you run in. If you walk in 14mm drop 10 hours at work all day then there's no way you can pop out and race in zeroes. Extended to training I take this as "use the whole day, not just your training sessions".


something like that....not that it is more important, but that it is an additional consideration....but, yes, you can wear normal shoes and race in flats but you may not be helping yourself in the long run 9no pun intended).


What if you wear zero drop all the time except running which you do in 8mm drop?


Why would you want to run in 8 mil drop?
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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jc
It's obvious .... it's running downhill?!
I'm getting a pair first thing.

8mm drop....

If you can shift, don't get blisters or an injury there good to go.

The worlds gone mad. I know the body and how to get every second out of it for our beloved sport is a complicated equation, but some of the hi-tech... do we really need this.. often have financially based origins.

Hope your running well 8 mm drop or not.
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jibberjim




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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Why would you want to run in 8 mil drop?


Appears to make zero difference to my running, I actually mostly run in 4mm, but there's very little in the way of cheap lightweight cushioned zero drop these days, so when I want some cushioning, I wear the 4 or 8, little noticeable difference in feel, and no discernable difference in metrics measured by the garmin running heart rate monitor.

I find a massive difference in walking with zero drop, and accurate jumping/climbing but no difference when running.
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