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Referendum 2: The return of the #@?#
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:
stenard wrote:
It also erodes some of the benefit of economies of scale, and will effectively mean the UK part of the business has to operate as a standalone enterprise from the rest of the European business, and stock purchases and imports need to be segregated into those that will land in the UK and serve the UK market, and those that will land in the EU and serve the EU market.


Not as much as you would think - company places ord er for Eu and UK stock levels (hence gets economies of scale) and than has them delivered to the appropriate level of jurisdiction.

No doubt working out which is the most tax advantageous place to place the order from and where to delver to .....

True. Overarching supplier agreements with call off contracts to individual group businesses can protect the buying power. But it doesn't fully solve the problem of having to operate the two parts of the businesses independently. You now need to forecast stock requirements for each business separately ... get that wrong and you lose out on sales due to lack of stock, or conversely have to double down on clearance in both markets which erodes margin.

With goods shipping from the far east, most of this stuff has numerous months worth of lead time as they are on freight ships, with orders placed well before they are expected to be needed, and so it's pretty much impossible to do "top up" orders of bulky goods like turbo trainers, etc.
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mattsurf




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:
stenard wrote:
It also erodes some of the benefit of economies of scale, and will effectively mean the UK part of the business has to operate as a standalone enterprise from the rest of the European business, and stock purchases and imports need to be segregated into those that will land in the UK and serve the UK market, and those that will land in the EU and serve the EU market.


Not as much as you would think - company places ord er for Eu and UK stock levels (hence gets economies of scale) and than has them delivered to the appropriate level of jurisdiction.

No doubt working out which is the most tax advantageous place to place the order from and where to delver to .....


Wouldn't work easily, the EU party would need to be a separate legal entity and the PO would need to be placed by that legal entity. It is possible that there could be a global frame agreement negotiated, however, that would need to be done with each supplier, so realistically the global agreement would only cover a limited number of suppliers, who probably represent the majority of sales. However by doing this we are adding a lot more complexity into the supply chain, there will be other additional complications such as not being able to use EU stock for UK customers, a lot more working capital will be required to duplicate inventory locations, lots of extra IT complexity
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baaaaaah, details. MAKE IT SO!

They need Harry Enfield's Yorkshireman running Brexit....he liked the sound of his own voice.
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GrahamO




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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have to laugh - Drunker complaining about the UK deciding it will allow immigration based upon skill and not based upon EU citizenship.

Could it be that he is worried the UK will only take the decent, qualified and useful people rather than hordes of car washers, fruit pickers etc and then the EU will have to pay their benefits and find them jobs ?

Surely not.
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:


Could it be that he is worried the UK will only take the decent, qualified and useful people rather than hordes of car washers, fruit pickers etc.
This is probably old news to many of you, but as I am nearing the end of three weeks of having my home ripped apart to replace the heating system and the bathroom, I have to say that while British tradesmen can be very good, the Polish ones are like on rocket fuel, in terms of attention to detail and quality.

One of them told me that British attitudes to Polish workers are like Polish attitudes to Ukrainian workers. So wherever you go itís the same old.

GrahamO if British businesses would rather employ foreign fruit pickers and car washers, should that not be a business decision not a political one?

Governments can set minimum working conditions etc, but surely businesses should be free to employ who is best for the job? That leads to the best output, highest tax take etc.
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GrahamO




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
GrahamO if British businesses would rather employ foreign fruit pickers and car washers, should that not be a business decision not a political one?


Its not a business decision though - its a choice to keep your own countrymen unemployed while a foreign plumber comes into the country to do a job.

It may have conveniently escaped your notice but the British people voted to make that choice and not leave it to businesses to decide.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:

I have to say that while British tradesmen can be very good, the Polish ones are like on rocket fuel, in terms of attention to detail and quality.

One of them told me that British attitudes to Polish workers are like Polish attitudes to Ukrainian workers. So wherever you go itís the same old.


Ha, we had a Pole & two Ukranians do some work on our house before we moved in. The most problematic work (that had to be rectified) was the plumbing, done by a British guy.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a generalisation, is it not that the british (non) worker doesn't want to pick the fruit and thus those who are willing to work the hours and live on a low wage are keeping the business' running?

Additionally, for years there has been a dearth of skilled trades workers qualifying in the UK.

At the other end of the scale, many countries (including UK) are happy to strip mine the world for skilled workers such as doctors in particular. This can reduce the numbers of skilled workers in the countries that invested in their education in the first place.

I don't have a problem with anyone going to any country to work provided that is what they do. The process needs however to be controlled (whether it falls under the freedom of movement in the eu or not) and their contribution assessed.

Where the eu system has failed spectacularly, in addition to refugees and migrants not registering at the country of entry, is that with an unequal welfare system, there will always be an imbalance of movement.
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
GrahamO if British businesses would rather employ foreign fruit pickers and car washers, should that not be a business decision not a political one?


Its not a business decision though - its a choice to keep your own countrymen unemployed while a foreign plumber comes into the country to do a job.
Not quite sure how to answer this. Should jobs be filled via allocation from the job Centre?

Quote:
It may have conveniently escaped your notice but the British people voted to make that choice and not leave it to businesses to decide.
then again it may not have.

Approximately 51.9% of people who voted voted to leave, for varing reasons. But that 15.3 million of so represents only about one third of the U.K. electorate, and under one quarter of the U.K. population.

Hardly the country talking. But democracy is democracy.
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GrahamO




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jesus, another brain donor claiming to know what non-voters wanted when confronted by the fact they expressed no preference.

The country voted to leave, to control who comes into the country and to make the UK courts the ultimate authority.

Everything else is BS from those who will literally claim anything to change the outcome.
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:
Jesus, another brain donor claiming to know what non-voters wanted when confronted by the fact they expressed no preference.

The country voted to leave, to control who comes into the country and to make the UK courts the ultimate authority.

Everything else is BS from those who will literally claim anything to change the outcome.
GrahamO why the agression?

I have made no such claims. I just pointed out some facts that you can easily verify.

Now do you speak for why every person who voted leave, voted leave? I know you donít.

The vote was to leave, and as we live in a democracy, that vote should be respected. But that isnít the point here. The point is whether businesses should be able to chose who they employ.

You think no, as you started earlier, as its a political choice. Fair enough.
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stenard




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
As a generalisation, is it not that the british (non) worker doesn't want to pick the fruit and thus those who are willing to work the hours and live on a low wage are keeping the business' running?

Additionally, for years there has been a dearth of skilled trades workers qualifying in the UK.

Agree on these two points. I didn't really understand the claims around immigration resulting in "foreigners taking our jobs", as the average British person has shown they don't want to do those jobs anymore.

And on the latter, I blame New Labour. Creating a goal of 50% of school leavers going to university was more than just unnecessary. Ignoring the fact we don't need a population with 50% of everyone holding a degree, all they were really doing was putting off the fact they had no solution to youth employment. By incentivising people to stay in education they could delay dealing with that issue until they lost power, and then use poor youth employment as a stick to beat the next government with. Rolling Eyes

All my school friends who didnt bother with university and took up apprenticeships have done well for themselves. And I believe were some of the least affected by the economic crisis. If your boiler breaks, you need a plumber whether it's a recession or not.
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Last edited by stenard on Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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GrahamO




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

because you lost the vote and just keep waffling on about reasons why the vote didnt count.

I dont have to speak for everyone because I can look at the result.

And that vote was to stop immigration of people where we already had enough. The point is that the people said No to businesses deciding who comes into the country but you're still doing the BS waffle again.

You're still trying to challenge the result by picking at every topic and claiming the result wasnt the result.
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:
because you lost the vote and just keep waffling on about reasons why the vote didnt count.

I dont have to speak for everyone because I can look at the result.

And that vote was to stop immigration of people where we already had enough. The point is that the people said No to businesses deciding who comes into the country but you're still doing the BS waffle again.

You're still trying to challenge the result by picking at every topic and claiming the result wasnt the result.
No GrahamO Iím not. To me that is seriously warped thinking by you. (I know hold back the laughter).

The result was to leave. I donít think that I have ever argued that. Just because I donít think it is going to happen does not mean that I am challenging it. In fact I have actively tried not to influence things.

I was simply disagreeing with your analysis and comments GrahamO.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the UK labour market thing. I think I was the first generation where skilled manual careers i.e. trades were not as popular, or perhaps looked down upon by anyone who was doing okay at school, and we were steered towards 'white collar' career aspirations, certainly if it looked like we were going to get solid GCSE results. You then went onto do A-Levels and that seemed to be a nomansland in the late 80s & 90s - if you did A-Levels, then what did you do other than Uni? It didn't seem natural to go out into the job market 'just' with A-Levels, you either left school at 16 and got a job, went on YTS or College of FE to learn a trade...or it was Uni.

Now take Germany; I didn't go through the schooling system there, but the very clear impression I got, was that technically skilled non-graduate careers were actively promoted, and perhaps most importantly, they were respected. As a result, technical manufacturing is still strong, as are wages, and this all feeds back into the economy. I'm aware that Germany is a little more 'socialist' in its ideas than the UK, and taxation is higher, but fudge-me, the quality of life there, the public services and infrastructure are top-notch. Because unlike the UK, it hasn't just embraced the service sector, whilst out-sourcing all the stuff it thinks is 'beneath' it's labour force, to migrants.

In very simple terms, I think we have a cultural issue here; young people would rather say they worked for an investment bank (in whatever capacity) than work for the Ambulance Service.
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