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Referendum 2: The return of the #@?#
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
If the objective of communication is for the audience to misunderstand then you surely have developed this to a fine art. I appreciate that you have different definitions to the words you use compared to mainstream, but you really ought to make the definitions public if you wish for anyone to understand what on earth you are saying. In any general use of the terms I am quite satisfied with my interpretation of the differentiation between hopeful outcome and likely outcome.

As ever, the inability to debate, which is a rapidly declining skill and fits in well with the victimhood narrative, removes any opportunity to prigress and seek the dialectic.
ejc, I really donít understand your persistence with Ďvictimhoodí but it seems to keep you happy.

As you donít believe that I have ďthe ability to debateĒ perhaps it is best if we largely ignore each other from here on in. After all your opening volley against me on the Facebook page is why I donít interact there, and why I havenít joined the new forum.

So Ejc letís just shake hands and move on, positively forwards, largely ignoring each other. I for one have zero interest in someone telling me what I think. And you have clearly stated, many times, your views, assessments and opinions on me.

I am no politician and have zero desire to debate to prove points. I simply contribute where I think it useful (whether me adding to knowledge by answering questions, or seeking the wisdom base of the people on this forum).

But Ejc, seriously, telling me what I think, especially when you are wrong, isnít good form. So letís just move on, stepping positively forwards but apart.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
If the objective of communication is for the audience to misunderstand then you surely have developed this to a fine art. I appreciate that you have different definitions to the words you use compared to mainstream, but you really ought to make the definitions public if you wish for anyone to understand what on earth you are saying. In any general use of the terms I am quite satisfied with my interpretation of the differentiation between hopeful outcome and likely outcome.

As ever, the inability to debate, which is a rapidly declining skill and fits in well with the victimhood narrative, removes any opportunity to prigress and seek the dialectic.
ejc, I really donít understand your persistence with Ďvictimhoodí but it seems to keep you happy.

As you donít believe that I have ďthe ability to debateĒ perhaps it is best if we largely ignore each other from here on in. After all your opening volley against me on the Facebook page is why I donít interact there, and why I havenít joined the new forum.

So Ejc letís just shake hands and move on, positively forwards, largely ignoring each other. I for one have zero interest in someone telling me what I think. And you have clearly stated, many times, your views, assessments and opinions on me.

I am no politician and have zero desire to debate to prove points. I simply contribute where I think it useful (whether me adding to knowledge by answering questions, or seeking the wisdom base of the people on this forum).

But Ejc, seriously, telling me what I think, especially when you are wrong, isnít good form. So letís just move on, stepping positively forwards but apart.



In the first instance, that you punctuate most of these threads with details of said victimhood, I think it is reasonable for me to call it thus.

In the second instance, whilst i am flattered that you chose one of my FB posts above others, you are, of course, at liberty to come and go as you please...no one is stopping you from participating in any capacity, on any forum...

In the third instance, this thread and others are littered with contributors being challenged on their ideas and viewpoints....that's kind of the purpose of forums. As yet, no one else has felt obliged to do anything other than improve their explanation... no strops, no tears, no hysterics..

On the final point, i made nothing up, i just summarised an aspect of several of your recent posts...in this instance, all quite laudable, but not necessarily likely or viable, of course...here are a few, as it seems to have slipped your mind...

SloggingScotsman wrote:

Politicians who have the wisdom to know themselves and who understand these human failings are the surest route to global peace. Backed up by strong multinational organisations where we work together for the common good.

As someone who would bring about a proper United Nations/United States of Europe,

Perhaps it really is time for the Homo branch of life to take another evolutionary leap.

Once the human race evolves sufficiently so that desire, greed, egos etc donít control our decision making, then things have a good chance of self sorting fairly quickly. But that really would require global unison, which is unlikely.




That your rant took you off on a different direction is not uncommon, it seems...
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, there we have it...the EU has risen above itself and the people it purports to represent...
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SGreg




Joined: 30 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
So, there we have it...the EU has risen above itself and the people it purports to represent...


Which People?
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGreg wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
So, there we have it...the EU has risen above itself and the people it purports to represent...


Which People?

Precisely. They've negotiated a position that the 27 other member states have all agreed upon and ratified. Why would the EU now unilaterally go against that and consider giving away more?

It does seem some people have a very biased, one sided view of how these negotiations should have gone. Whether you agree with the EU "project" or not, you surely have to understand/respect that those involved within it will want to protect its interests.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGreg wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
So, there we have it...the EU has risen above itself and the people it purports to represent...


Which People?


all of them...
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
SGreg wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
So, there we have it...the EU has risen above itself and the people it purports to represent...


Which People?

Precisely. They've negotiated a position that the 27 other member states have all agreed upon and ratified. Why would the EU now unilaterally go against that and consider giving away more?

It does seem some people have a very biased, one sided view of how these negotiations should have gone. Whether you agree with the EU "project" or not, you surely have to understand/respect that those involved within it will want to protect its interests.


you've just said it there...
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Wheezy




Joined: 10 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
SGreg wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
So, there we have it...the EU has risen above itself and the people it purports to represent...


Which People?

Precisely. They've negotiated a position that the 27 other member states have all agreed upon and ratified. Why would the EU now unilaterally go against that and consider giving away more?

It does seem some people have a very biased, one sided view of how these negotiations should have gone. Whether you agree with the EU "project" or not, you surely have to understand/respect that those involved within it will want to protect its interests.


This. We are making ourselves a third country and the EU is protecting the interests of its remaining member states. No more, no less.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wheezy wrote:
stenard wrote:
SGreg wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
So, there we have it...the EU has risen above itself and the people it purports to represent...


Which People?

Precisely. They've negotiated a position that the 27 other member states have all agreed upon and ratified. Why would the EU now unilaterally go against that and consider giving away more?

It does seem some people have a very biased, one sided view of how these negotiations should have gone. Whether you agree with the EU "project" or not, you surely have to understand/respect that those involved within it will want to protect its interests.


This. We are making ourselves a third country and the EU is protecting the interests of its remaining member states. No more, no less.


we are close to a no deal exit...which of the 27 members will benefit from that?
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter Lilley said trade deals could be negotiated "in 10 minutes". I've no idea what all the panic is about.

If I truly believed a Hard Brexit (or any exit) would have delivered everything that was 'promised' I too would have voted for it. I mean, who wouldn't want the UK returning the 18th Century levels of awesomeness, dictating it's terms and conditions at pain of death; a statuesque woman kicking Juncker into an abyss... bellowing "this is Britannia". Gets my vote.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Peter Lilley said trade deals could be negotiated "in 10 minutes". I've no idea what all the panic is about.

If I truly believed a Hard Brexit (or any exit) would have delivered everything that was 'promised' I too would have voted for it. I mean, who wouldn't want the UK returning the 18th Century levels of awesomeness, dictating it's terms and conditions at pain of death; a statuesque woman kicking Juncker into an abyss... bellowing "this is Britannia". Gets my vote.


thankfully he represents no one in particular...
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Wheezy




Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 1873
Location: Sub 3 (elect)

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Wheezy wrote:
stenard wrote:
SGreg wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
So, there we have it...the EU has risen above itself and the people it purports to represent...


Which People?

Precisely. They've negotiated a position that the 27 other member states have all agreed upon and ratified. Why would the EU now unilaterally go against that and consider giving away more?

It does seem some people have a very biased, one sided view of how these negotiations should have gone. Whether you agree with the EU "project" or not, you surely have to understand/respect that those involved within it will want to protect its interests.


This. We are making ourselves a third country and the EU is protecting the interests of its remaining member states. No more, no less.


we are close to a no deal exit...which of the 27 members will benefit from that?


As our manufacturing and service sectors haemorrhage into the EU over the next few years, I'm sure they all will. That's why I want to remain.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wheezy wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Wheezy wrote:
stenard wrote:
SGreg wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
So, there we have it...the EU has risen above itself and the people it purports to represent...


Which People?

Precisely. They've negotiated a position that the 27 other member states have all agreed upon and ratified. Why would the EU now unilaterally go against that and consider giving away more?

It does seem some people have a very biased, one sided view of how these negotiations should have gone. Whether you agree with the EU "project" or not, you surely have to understand/respect that those involved within it will want to protect its interests.


This. We are making ourselves a third country and the EU is protecting the interests of its remaining member states. No more, no less.


we are close to a no deal exit...which of the 27 members will benefit from that?


As our manufacturing and service sectors haemorrhage into the EU over the next few years, I'm sure they all will. That's why I want to remain.


Certainly we are entrapped in the current system...

however, iirc, we import about £340m of EU goods...we will all be equally bankrupted in a no deal situation...
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SGreg




Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Posts: 1110
Location: High Peak

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Wheezy wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Wheezy wrote:
stenard wrote:
SGreg wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
So, there we have it...the EU has risen above itself and the people it purports to represent...


Which People?

Precisely. They've negotiated a position that the 27 other member states have all agreed upon and ratified. Why would the EU now unilaterally go against that and consider giving away more?

It does seem some people have a very biased, one sided view of how these negotiations should have gone. Whether you agree with the EU "project" or not, you surely have to understand/respect that those involved within it will want to protect its interests.


This. We are making ourselves a third country and the EU is protecting the interests of its remaining member states. No more, no less.


we are close to a no deal exit...which of the 27 members will benefit from that?


As our manufacturing and service sectors haemorrhage into the EU over the next few years, I'm sure they all will. That's why I want to remain.


Certainly we are entrapped in the current system...

however, iirc, we import about £340m of EU goods...we will all be equally bankrupted in a no deal situation...


With a $18.8 Trillion GDP, they probably won't give a ~#*$!
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGreg wrote:


With a $18.8 Trillion GDP, they probably won't give a ~#*$!


With a net debt of 81% GDP, you'd hope otherwise...
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