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% of power when climbing
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gerrymc




Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:49 pm    Post subject: % of power when climbing Reply with quote

Entered AdH long course which has 3 long climbs, each one for me probably more that an hour, and probably closer to 80mins . I realise the goal is to get as light as possible and have threshold as high as possible but for an event like this at what wattage effort should you be aiming to work at.

GerryMc
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the highest you can sustain without compromising your race...
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JamieMcP




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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ridden the course though not as part of a tri, average power on the climbs was around 180 compared to an FTP of around 230
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Ade




Joined: 27 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Compact and 28 (or more), spinny spinny. The year I did this I was fine on the climbs, trained for them like they were an hour long time trials (no power meter, so I can't help you with a number). I'd say aim for the 70% mark, like for a 'normal' full-distance race. The run is surprisingly tough, and could be horrific if the climb up AdH has emptied you.

What I found was the descents knackered my lower back as I wasn't used to spending that long (any time at all) in the drops pointing down. When I go again I'll have to think about factoring that into training.
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mattsurf




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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ade wrote:


What I found was the descents knackered my lower back as I wasn't used to spending that long (any time at all) in the drops pointing down. When I go again I'll have to think about factoring that into training.


Not done AdH, but moved to Switzerland last summer, so have gained a fair bit of experience cycling up and down mountains. I fully agree with Ade, I find really long mountain descents physically and psychologically challenging, the psychological bit is the amount of concentration it takes to judge your braking points and try not to weep as the good descenders (locals) disappear off into the distance at reckless speeds, and the nerves it requires when you realise that you have misjudged your braking point while trying to follow on of the aforementioned locals into a tight technical bit. Physically descending is also tough, especially on back and neck.

Rather than power, I prefer to ride the ascents on Heart rate, typically on an hour long climb I will be at 163-168 bpm (about 84%-88%), as I know that I will have a rest (in HR at least) on the descent. When climbing my PM is all over the place due to gradient changes. My pace is normally dictated by the other club riders I am with, so may not be 100% correct advice
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YKK




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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did this the other year and would say the three climbs are very different.

1st is ok
2nd is relatively easy
3rd (Alp D'huez is a brute) esp as the sun can be up by then and it basically a heat cauldron.

So try and hold back on the first two regardless of FTP etc.

FWIW I am not a bad runner off the bike but horriffic would be how I how describe my run at the top.
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Doonhamer




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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think heat was as much of a problem as the climbs this year.
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Ade




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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thinking about what YKK said, I remember that the first climb is relatively gentle - but much, much longer than you think it's going to be. The year I did this the valley between climb 1 and 2 was a cooker. Plus there are all the other not-climby-enough-to-count-as-climbs climbs.

I'd say that if it feels like you're mostly taking it too easy then that's probably about right.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thing is, everyone's different with regard to what % of notional FTP they can ride at, for a given duration/gradient/weather.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Thing is, everyone's different with regard to what % of notional FTP they can ride at, for a given duration/gradient/weather.


hence my post...
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gerrymc




Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for replies, last sunday on turbo I just did a (boring) 90 min spin at 70% with a constant 90/95 cadence, the idea was to replicate a long climb and see how that felt, last 30 were tough enough but was a good training replicator.

GerryMc
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tuckandgo




Joined: 03 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gerrymc wrote:
Thanks for replies, last sunday on turbo I just did a (boring) 90 min spin at 70% with a constant 90/95 cadence, the idea was to replicate a long climb and see how that felt, last 30 were tough enough but was a good training replicator.

GerryMc


Unless you are riding a mtb, or fitting a dinner plate to your back wheel I would practice low cadence riding at tempo when tired.

(n.b. this has nothing to do with my low cadence discussions on other threads)

As that is what you will be doing up the 3rd climb - not spinning up at 90.

Other people have answered the effort question - my 2 cents is that you should expect to be 'pushing' but not at a level that feels unsustainable. So it doesn't feel easy, but you shouldn't be thinking 'I really want to stop now' (unless it is the last bit of course Wink and ideally not even then)
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Cobbie




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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gerrymc wrote:
Thanks for replies, last sunday on turbo I just did a (boring) 90 min spin at 70% with a constant 90/95 cadence, the idea was to replicate a long climb and see how that felt, last 30 were tough enough but was a good training replicator.

GerryMc

The idea that you might just pootle up is nuts - sorry to be blunt. I presume you're aware that the average gradient on AdH is over 8%?
That 90 min session should be at 65-70 rpm to replicate 8-10%

To think that your session is relevant to AdH indicates that you're not really very knowledgeable about this kind of event - go and read up, there are plenty of reports out there on hilly triathlons and I don't recall reading about anyone spinning up anything, ever.

To attempt to help answer your original question ... when I was pretty cycling fit, I was probably getting close to 4W/kg (c300W FTP and 72kg). I targeted c230W on the climbs at Norseman so about 75% of FTP (steady), with the capacity to push higher on the occasional steep bit ... less important for Norseman than when cycling in the Alps.
Given that it's a half, you can probably push that envelope if you're well trained but as has been said, heat and dehydration will likely bite you if you go too hard.
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jibberjim




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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cobbie wrote:
gerrymc wrote:
Thanks for replies, last sunday on turbo I just did a (boring) 90 min spin at 70% with a constant 90/95 cadence, the idea was to replicate a long climb and see how that felt, last 30 were tough enough but was a good training replicator.

GerryMc

The idea that you might just pootle up is nuts - sorry to be blunt. I presume you're aware that the average gradient on AdH is over 8%?
That 90 min session should be at 65-70 rpm to replicate 8-10%


Or just get appropriate gearing...

A 33x36 lowest gear which is cheap and easy to get at 70rpm, will get you up alpe d'huez in over 2 hours, if AdH is taking you 2 hours, will you even make the time cut off?
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tuckandgo




Joined: 03 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jibberjim wrote:
Cobbie wrote:
gerrymc wrote:
Thanks for replies, last sunday on turbo I just did a (boring) 90 min spin at 70% with a constant 90/95 cadence, the idea was to replicate a long climb and see how that felt, last 30 were tough enough but was a good training replicator.

GerryMc

The idea that you might just pootle up is nuts - sorry to be blunt. I presume you're aware that the average gradient on AdH is over 8%?
That 90 min session should be at 65-70 rpm to replicate 8-10%


Or just get appropriate gearing...

A 33x36 lowest gear which is cheap and easy to get at 70rpm, will get you up alpe d'huez in over 2 hours, if AdH is taking you 2 hours, will you even make the time cut off?


But then you might need a new derailleur and it all gets a bit expensive.
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