Tri Talk HomepageTri Talk EventsTri Talk ForumsBlogsTri Talk TrainingTri TradeTriPlayerWikiTeam Tri Talk
AGer Kevin Moats gets 8 year suspension after second offence
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TriTalk.co.uk Forum Index -> General
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 15378
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
JeffB wrote:
I suspect he's the tip of the iceberg unfortunately, when you see M45+ doing sub 9's etc. it raises a few eyebrows, I know some might be ex pro's etc. and clearly from a better gene pool than me but it makes you wonder. Didn't one of the daily rags suggest 1m+ people in the UK were on steroids earlier in the week.


There's also a lot of drafting at some events; some years you have many AGers going 4:30 or better in Barcelona, for example. Some of them are guys that normally ride 4:5* in every other fast IM (yes I do have names in mind, and one or two are British).


loads of drafting which, had the rules been better administered early on, we may have broken the back of...
_________________
www.appliedtri.co.uk Tri and Du coaching

www.naturalrunningform.co.uk Natural Running Form Coach

2018 Training Camps http://www.appliedtri.co.uk/training-camps/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Chrace




Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 2750
Location: Eating a Yorkie

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Symes wrote:
Mungo wrote:
Why....?
It's nice to do well and go fast in our old age, but just why?!
Your fooling yourself and cheating people who may deserve the win more than you.
Why?


I guess the feeling of winning and being seen to be the fastest out there on that particular day is greater than the guilt of knowing how you've achieved it.

I'm sure Lance could write a book on this.
_________________
Where the mind goes the body follows.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tuckandgo




Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 368

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Symes wrote:
Mungo wrote:
Why....?
It's nice to do well and go fast in our old age, but just why?!
Your fooling yourself and cheating people who may deserve the win more than you.
Why?


I guess the feeling of winning and being seen to be the fastest out there on that particular day is greater than the guilt of knowing how you've achieved it.


I think that should just be 'the feeling of winning and being the fastest out there' . There is no guilt. And I doubt they are thinking about doping as they push towards the finish, just the fact they feel damn good and are winning.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jibberjim




Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 8275
Location: Kingston

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrace wrote:
Symes wrote:
Mungo wrote:
Why....?
It's nice to do well and go fast in our old age, but just why?!
Your fooling yourself and cheating people who may deserve the win more than you.
Why?


I guess the feeling of winning and being seen to be the fastest out there on that particular day is greater than the guilt of knowing how you've achieved it.

I'm sure Lance could write a book on this.


Remember it's not cheating, if you believe everyone else is also cheating, then it's just playing by the rules, and being better at it. Most people reframe their cheating in this way, regardless of it's sport or not.
_________________
Jibbering Sports Stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 15378
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jibberjim wrote:
Chrace wrote:
Symes wrote:
Mungo wrote:
Why....?
It's nice to do well and go fast in our old age, but just why?!
Your fooling yourself and cheating people who may deserve the win more than you.
Why?


I guess the feeling of winning and being seen to be the fastest out there on that particular day is greater than the guilt of knowing how you've achieved it.

I'm sure Lance could write a book on this.


Remember it's not cheating, if you believe everyone else is also cheating, then it's just playing by the rules, and being better at it. Most people reframe their cheating in this way, regardless of it's sport or not.


it's cheating...nothing more, nothing less...
_________________
www.appliedtri.co.uk Tri and Du coaching

www.naturalrunningform.co.uk Natural Running Form Coach

2018 Training Camps http://www.appliedtri.co.uk/training-camps/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Buzz_




Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 311

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may be wrong, but I get the impression that supplementing in old age is considered standard practice in America - fuelled by the drug companies and health insurance providers pushing their products on to affluent baby boomers. That being the case, a competitive AG athlete would be the exception amongst their peers by refusing testosterone, HGH or steroids. Can see how someone would justify it to themselves as just normal nutrition for someone of their age.

--
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 16936
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What really beggars belief is that Moat's, having already been sanctioned once, not only continues to use it knowing he'll be on the radar....but it was still in his system 3 days before the race Rofl
_________________
26 Years since it all began....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 15378
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
What really beggars belief is that Moat's, having already been sanctioned once, not only continues to use it knowing he'll be on the radar....but it was still in his system 3 days before the race Rofl


it is just disappointing he wasn't tested straight after the last ban...it would have saved wasting everyone's time
_________________
www.appliedtri.co.uk Tri and Du coaching

www.naturalrunningform.co.uk Natural Running Form Coach

2018 Training Camps http://www.appliedtri.co.uk/training-camps/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 16936
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
What really beggars belief is that Moat's, having already been sanctioned once, not only continues to use it knowing he'll be on the radar....but it was still in his system 3 days before the race Rofl


it is just disappointing he wasn't tested straight after the last ban...it would have saved wasting everyone's time


I had a look out of interest, and I think all his results post 2012 have now been removed by Ironman.
_________________
26 Years since it all began....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JaRok2300




Joined: 01 May 2014
Posts: 349
Location: Worcester, UK

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never got the whole cheating psyche but there must be some mechanism where they block it out or justify it otherwise any sense of achievement would be completely nullified.

My club organise a very small scale local duathlon and one year 4 riders rode the whole thing like a team TT. They passed numerous marshals on course, the start/finish and myself on my motorbike numerous times with little or no attempt to separate.

At the end of the race the referee DQ'd all 4 to which they protested vehemently that they weren't drafting and when that didn't work started squabbling amongst themselves about who had been at the front most of the time as it was the other 3's fault.

I found the whole thing really odd as to listen to them there really didn't seem to be any concept whatsoever of doing anything wrong in their minds.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 15378
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shouting at a draftbuster as i followed about 20m behind a peleton that I had tried to ride through 2 or 2 times before calling it a day...
_________________
www.appliedtri.co.uk Tri and Du coaching

www.naturalrunningform.co.uk Natural Running Form Coach

2018 Training Camps http://www.appliedtri.co.uk/training-camps/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 398
Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IM could replace timing chips with IoT GPS devices, I am sure that analytics could process the data pretty simply to identify if people were drafting. The cost of location devices is coming down pretty quickly. This could also provide a richer picture of how individuals are performing in real time
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chrace




Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 2750
Location: Eating a Yorkie

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:
IM could replace timing chips with IoT GPS devices, I am sure that analytics could process the data pretty simply to identify if people were drafting. The cost of location devices is coming down pretty quickly. This could also provide a richer picture of how individuals are performing in real time

I remember we discussed that one before. There's so many things to consider it'll take a while before it happens, e.g. a meter off the line, time in zone, etc.
_________________
Where the mind goes the body follows.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SidSnot




Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 1603

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:
IM could replace timing chips with IoT GPS devices, I am sure that analytics could process the data pretty simply to identify if people were drafting. The cost of location devices is coming down pretty quickly. This could also provide a richer picture of how individuals are performing in real time


Search for IM Barcelona bike leg Activity on Strava and have a look at some of the fly-by's.
_________________
@sidmott
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fat buddha




Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 2489
Location: rural Zuzzex

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrace wrote:
mattsurf wrote:
IM could replace timing chips with IoT GPS devices, I am sure that analytics could process the data pretty simply to identify if people were drafting. The cost of location devices is coming down pretty quickly. This could also provide a richer picture of how individuals are performing in real time

I remember we discussed that one before. There's so many things to consider it'll take a while before it happens, e.g. a meter off the line, time in zone, etc.


as said, in a dynamic environment it would almost be impossible to keep track of whether athletes are deliberately drafting or not even given the best of tracking systems. as much as us TOs would love a method of cutting down on drafting there is no better way currently than to have "eyes on" as that way a TO or draftbuster can decide whether the drafting is deliberate or not - many cases are inadvertent. that's why a drafting penalty is known as a "judgement call" as it takes someone to decide on it and not technology. but as we all know we can't have eyes everywhere.

there's a simple way of cutting down on drafting - make all events draft legal.....*cough*..... Wink
_________________
And the lord said unto John; "come forth and receive eternal life." But John came fifth and won a toaster.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TriTalk.co.uk Forum Index -> General All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4
  Share
 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum





Home | About TT | Privacy Policy | Terms and Conditions | Advertising | Contact TT
Copyright ©2003-2015 TriTalk®.co.uk. All rights reserved.