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Furman First marathon training plans

 
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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 1685
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:23 pm    Post subject: Furman First marathon training plans Reply with quote

Have any of you done this plan?

I've just dropped my coached plan due to financial circumstances and lack of time to commit to the sessions so I'm looking at doing this plan and supplementing it with Zwift and a 'swim when you can' policy.

The long run paces seem very quick seeing as though everyone else seems to advocate much slower than race pace but I suppose that is down to the small volume.
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tin pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didnít you have a look at this in 2016?

My comments are here:
http://www.tritalk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1652103

I tried it for a few months then went back to lots of easy running. I think the volume is a bit high for tri.
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Iron Ď17 16h11, '16 14h30
Half Iron Ď18 DNF, '17 7h39, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
Trail 10K '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 1685
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know what, I'd completely forgotten about that thread. Looking back now I know why there was no last response - I completely blew up on the race and pulled out after 19 miles! The only marathon I've never finished.

Obviously, that proves that it can't be done with hard bike training included.

I'm going to try it but with much slower long runs and see how I get on. No marathon entered yet but cancelled/deferred all my races this year apart from Challenge Paguera Half in Oct so need to keep focused over Spring/Summer.
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ed_m




Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 8143
Location: coventry

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same comments as before I suspect.... intense sessions with good recovery needed.

Always felt like I wanted a bit more mileage to go faster than I managed before (3:12 and a couple of sub 3 attempts).
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1591

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whilst I never formally adopted the approach, I did used to run less frequently but often harder. I somewhat bastardised the method for my first marathon (where I ditched tri training almost entirely), and did have a reasonable outcome from it - I did add in extra easier runs though, such as commutes to work etc.

Since I moved to being coached, I've done hefty amounts of steady running. Way more than I would normally have done in tri mode. That volume alone, with no out and out run focus, led to a chunky HM pb (c3 mins) and going sub-80. I also pb'd at 5k in December, having done little to no speedwork at all in preparation.

For tri training in particular, where you have to fit in other sessions, I'm now fairly sold on the longer and slower approach for running. It's yielded chunky improvements whilst leaving me pretty fresh for other sessions. It does take a lot more time out of my day however, considering my shortest runs are now 60 minutes or more.
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tin pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iirc the formula is basically 3 runs; speed (intervals), tempo and long run. Iím broadly doing the same thing in the TrainerRoad half iron plan, however the intervals are much shorter, measured in seconds rather than the 400/800/1200m furman uses. And instead of tempo its half mara pace.

Im hoping to see it through as I need to increase my pace but Iím tending to agree with stenard that steady pace is ultimately more rewarding.
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Iron Ď17 16h11, '16 14h30
Half Iron Ď18 DNF, '17 7h39, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
Trail 10K '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
but Iím tending to agree with stenard that steady pace is ultimately more rewarding.

To be clear, I'm seeing results off of it, which is ultimately rewarding, but it's pretty boring running steady all the time. I never used to listen to music etc, but find myself running a lot more to podcasts now as I just get a bit bored otherwise.

The occasional tempo efforts I'm fine with. The focus on holding a pace gives me enough mental distraction.

But I miss track. I enjoyed the beasting myself aspect, and the group dynamic. I've not been in nearly 4 months now. But I see the ultimate purpose behind long and steady, so that helps ensure I stick with it.
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
Tin Pot wrote:
but Iím tending to agree with stenard that steady pace is ultimately more rewarding.

To be clear, I'm seeing results off of it, which is ultimately rewarding, but it's pretty boring running steady all the time. I never used to listen to music etc, but find myself running a lot more to podcasts now as I just get a bit bored otherwise.

The occasional tempo efforts I'm fine with. The focus on holding a pace gives me enough mental distraction.

But I miss track. I enjoyed the beasting myself aspect, and the group dynamic. I've not been in nearly 4 months now. But I see the ultimate purpose behind long and steady, so that helps ensure I stick with it.


I did an extreme version of this last year in my VLM build. I actually really got stuck in to the steady stuff, and used my competitive spirit on trying to control my HR instead of speed. That said, now that i have started getting back into things (a year later) i have realised how much i love beasting myself in proper sessions and can't wait to hit the track up again with my club as i haven't been in months!

to be clear, i got huge gains from the steady, high mileage. But i know that there is absolutely no way i could fit that into my life any more, so will need to go down the more trad route.
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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you think there is value in slow, steady runs supplemented by 50-90 min HARD turboís?
If so, what kind of mileage do you class as high?
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1511
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PCP wrote:
Do you think there is value in slow, steady runs supplemented by 50-90 min HARD turboís?
If so, what kind of mileage do you class as high?


yes, personally i do think there would be value, as you'll get the CV and some related strength gains without the hammering that the equivalent running session would have delivered to your legs. that's just my opinion though.

I ran, excluding taper, 10 weeks at 131km p/w on average, at an average pace of 4.35/km. I must say though that i did suffer an injury at the end, though i think this was due to me not doing enough S&C to help my body to cope with the mileage. I had planned on chasing a 2.40-42, but the injury surfaced again on race day so after about 15 miles that went into the bin.
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sb20




Joined: 07 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm using FIRST for Brighton and did last year for London.

Have seen the link to the last thread and say most comments looks spot on.

last year I was unable to hang onto the pace of long runs and was left feeling burnt out, so missed a lot of the cross training. I also felt i has not spent enough time on my feel so my legs were trashed after 2 1/2 hour of the VLM. Came in at 3:10 off 1:30 1/2 way round.

This year I am doing the speed session and the mid week session at the given pace, but am going much more gently on the Long runs (and doing them over hills) and have made sure i have done a 3 hour run. I have replaced some of the cross training with slow runs instead. I have not troubled the pool this winter!.

This year I still felt a tad over trained and got ill easily so backed off a couple of times. I suspect another 3:10 is on the cards. Time will tell.
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First Tri an evening sprint in 2008 done a few since then inc 2x Roth, IM Wales, 2x Celtman, Alps d'Huez Long, O till O, Ceasers Camp 100 x2, Norseman, Ring O Fire, St Oswalds 100, Cambrian trail, 2 Race to the King, UTMB and so it goes on!
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