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funkster




Joined: 29 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:39 pm    Post subject: Velocity Events - marshman Reply with quote

anyone know if this is still going?

Website has been down for a few weeks
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fat buddha




Joined: 13 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

website seems OK this morning and afaik the event is still on.

organiser no longer permits his events via the BTF so your BTF membership won't cover you in case of an insurance issue. the discount offered for TriFed member means absolutely diddly squat - you simply are not covered.
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funkster




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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For some reason my work computer doesn't like the website.

So what are we saying about the event?

Is it "unsanctioned" as such?
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fat buddha




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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

funkster wrote:
For some reason my work computer doesn't like the website.

So what are we saying about the event?

Is it "unsanctioned" as such?


as such - in that your BTF membership (if you have one) doesn't cover you and any day licence sold to athletes is not a BTF day licence. and no presence from BTF officials such as me to keep things in order on the day.
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awildt




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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So basically they're charging people to turn up for a training swim / bike /run where if anything goes wrong they've told everyone to sign a disclaimer (the entry form) and they've got no viable insurance if anything goes wrong????

And yet they'll expect the NHS to deal with any casualty from the day and blame any motorist for taking out a runner / cyclist?

Oh this sounds totally normal.

Or have I missed something? Confused
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doug




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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There have been unsanctioned events before, some of them have been insured through other parties, you would need to check if this one has its own insurance or not.
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fat buddha




Joined: 13 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

most organisers who run unsanctioned events do have some form of insurance but it's always best to check what you're getting for your entry money.

this has been a contentious issue for some time when unsanctioned events are offering discounts for BTF (or other federation) members, who then think their BTF insurance covers them - when it doesn't. and what a day licence from the organiser covers is also uncertain and needs checking.

similarly, for us TOs, we can officiate at these events with 2 provisos - we don't wear BTF kit, and we acknowledge that our BTF insurance isn't valid. frankly, I don't want the hassle so don't get involved with them.

take part by all means but, as the French say, "a vos risques et perils"

I could go into a lot more about the approach and attitude of the organiser of Marshman to the whole of this matter but not on an open forum.

the BTF work hard to try to get unsanctioned events into the BTF sanctioning process and some key successes have been had - Castle Triathlon series for one are now all permitted (since 2016) and this season, UKTriathlon events (one of the big organiser names on the circuit and long time non BTF permitted) are now permitted.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

they have the BT logo on their website....


at least you don't race under the threat of losing your race licence (not that anyone did lose their licence iirc)
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

awildt wrote:
So basically they're charging people to turn up for a training swim / bike /run where if anything goes wrong they've told everyone to sign a disclaimer (the entry form) and they've got no viable insurance if anything goes wrong????

And yet they'll expect the NHS to deal with any casualty from the day and blame any motorist for taking out a runner / cyclist?

Oh this sounds totally normal.

Or have I missed something? Confused


how on earth can you infer that from FB's post????
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fat buddha




Joined: 13 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
they have the BT logo on their website....


at least you don't race under the threat of losing your race licence (not that anyone did lose their licence iirc)


and it's the old one...which says a lot. Rolling Eyes
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hammerer
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fat buddha wrote:
most organisers who run unsanctioned events do have some form of insurance but it's always best to check what you're getting for your entry money.

this has been a contentious issue for some time when unsanctioned events are offering discounts for BTF (or other federation) members, who then think their BTF insurance covers them - when it doesn't. and what a day licence from the organiser covers is also uncertain and needs checking.

similarly, for us TOs, we can officiate at these events with 2 provisos - we don't wear BTF kit, and we acknowledge that our BTF insurance isn't valid. frankly, I don't want the hassle so don't get involved with them.

take part by all means but, as the French say, "a vos risques et perils"

I could go into a lot more about the approach and attitude of the organiser of Marshman to the whole of this matter but not on an open forum.

the BTF work hard to try to get unsanctioned events into the BTF sanctioning process and some key successes have been had - Castle Triathlon series for one are now all permitted (since 2016) and this season, UKTriathlon events (one of the big organiser names on the circuit and long time non BTF permitted) are now permitted.


The castle tri series were very good eventually. basically after a large number of kids from london region clubs became ill after the race at hever in 2015 a lot of london clubs (I was still chair at one of the larger ones) got together and met with them and had talks. We all refused to back the race and send athletes if they didnt become sanctioned. Whilst we couldnt stop athlete going we all made it clear they wouldnt be insured and that we didnt advise it. that changed and now they are sanctioned.
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fat buddha




Joined: 13 Jul 2004
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Location: rural Zuzzex

PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
fat buddha wrote:
most organisers who run unsanctioned events do have some form of insurance but it's always best to check what you're getting for your entry money.

this has been a contentious issue for some time when unsanctioned events are offering discounts for BTF (or other federation) members, who then think their BTF insurance covers them - when it doesn't. and what a day licence from the organiser covers is also uncertain and needs checking.

similarly, for us TOs, we can officiate at these events with 2 provisos - we don't wear BTF kit, and we acknowledge that our BTF insurance isn't valid. frankly, I don't want the hassle so don't get involved with them.

take part by all means but, as the French say, "a vos risques et perils"

I could go into a lot more about the approach and attitude of the organiser of Marshman to the whole of this matter but not on an open forum.

the BTF work hard to try to get unsanctioned events into the BTF sanctioning process and some key successes have been had - Castle Triathlon series for one are now all permitted (since 2016) and this season, UKTriathlon events (one of the big organiser names on the circuit and long time non BTF permitted) are now permitted.


The castle tri series were very good eventually. basically after a large number of kids from london region clubs became ill after the race at hever in 2015 a lot of london clubs (I was still chair at one of the larger ones) got together and met with them and had talks. We all refused to back the race and send athletes if they didnt become sanctioned. Whilst we couldnt stop athlete going we all made it clear they wouldnt be insured and that we didnt advise it. that changed and now they are sanctioned.


I wasn't aware of the "peer pressure" put on them, although I was aware of the illness issues. I do know that the BTF also had to work hard to ensure they came on board but got there with them.
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hammerer
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Joined: 19 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fat buddha wrote:
hammerer wrote:
fat buddha wrote:
most organisers who run unsanctioned events do have some form of insurance but it's always best to check what you're getting for your entry money.

this has been a contentious issue for some time when unsanctioned events are offering discounts for BTF (or other federation) members, who then think their BTF insurance covers them - when it doesn't. and what a day licence from the organiser covers is also uncertain and needs checking.

similarly, for us TOs, we can officiate at these events with 2 provisos - we don't wear BTF kit, and we acknowledge that our BTF insurance isn't valid. frankly, I don't want the hassle so don't get involved with them.

take part by all means but, as the French say, "a vos risques et perils"

I could go into a lot more about the approach and attitude of the organiser of Marshman to the whole of this matter but not on an open forum.

the BTF work hard to try to get unsanctioned events into the BTF sanctioning process and some key successes have been had - Castle Triathlon series for one are now all permitted (since 2016) and this season, UKTriathlon events (one of the big organiser names on the circuit and long time non BTF permitted) are now permitted.


The castle tri series were very good eventually. basically after a large number of kids from london region clubs became ill after the race at hever in 2015 a lot of london clubs (I was still chair at one of the larger ones) got together and met with them and had talks. We all refused to back the race and send athletes if they didnt become sanctioned. Whilst we couldnt stop athlete going we all made it clear they wouldnt be insured and that we didnt advise it. that changed and now they are sanctioned.


I wasn't aware of the "peer pressure" put on them, although I was aware of the illness issues. I do know that the BTF also had to work hard to ensure they came on board but got there with them.


they changed the company and methods to measure water quality, frequency and got on board with BTF. Jon Train worked hard from memory also backing the clubs. At first they were like "it must have been a burger van, to oh shit we will do this this and this". I like to think it was because they cared and realised the problems and solved them but i think fear of the bottom line had a lot to do with the changes. Saying that they are a great bunch, races are m-dot quality and really well organised. It was just one issue and they rectified it. For that they need commending.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

we have to be careful of simply castigating non sanctioned events...it's where most races started out...hence my reaction earlier...just because it isn't sanctioned doesn't mean that it isn't of a high and appropriate standard...

that said, of course, the objective should be to encourage governing body sanction...

|
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awildt




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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
we have to be careful of simply castigating non sanctioned events...it's where most races started out...hence my reaction earlier...just because it isn't sanctioned doesn't mean that it isn't of a high and appropriate standard...

that said, of course, the objective should be to encourage governing body sanction...

|


My frustration comes from the perception that events, and particularly triathlon, has become business and the sporting side is lost. I reiterate perception as I know it is not, generally, very profitable and there are a lot of good sportspeople turned race organisers doing a good job.

If you're the good organiser, with sports interest, you make the effort for things like sanction. If you're the business, profit chasing type, in my head, you try and cut corners and costs. It doesn't seem right in my head that the sanctioning should be an allowable cost cutting measure.
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