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TT bike Vs Superbike Vs Bargain Bike
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 493
Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 8:25 pm    Post subject: TT bike Vs Superbike Vs Bargain Bike Reply with quote

Since the start of April I have been riding 35km to my office and 35km home 3 or 4 times per week. Just to make things interesting, I have been riding 4 different bikes:
Road Bike 1 - 2012 Orbea Orca Gold, Di2 (7.8kg)
Road bike 2 - 2017 Canyon CF SLX Di2 Disc (7.2kg)
Road bike 3 - 2001 Specialized S-Works Elite Festina (8.2kg)
TT bike - 2015 Specialized SHIV Di2 (8.0kg)

My cycle route to has a 3km 5% climb followed by a 20km 1.5% descent with a short steep climb at the end - total climb is 240m

My return home is either the reverse route or incorporates a 7km 8% climb (540m ascent)

So how do bikes compare (statistically)?
On normal ride, SHIV is 3.5% faster than the other bikes, it is the only bike that can get to the office sub 1 hour, it is simply faster on every part of the ride, including the 3km 5% climb

If I incorporate the 540m climb, the Canyon is the fastest on the climb by 2 minutes, however, the SHIV is still faster overall as it makes up time everywhere else

So coming to the other bikes, The Orbea, which is a tiny bit too big for me, is as quick as the Canyon on flat and downhill, but markedly slower up hill, overall it is around 2%-3% slower than the Canyon, and significantly more when I include the 540m climb

Which brings me to the Specialized Festina (bought for around 140) - In terms of fit I have set it up the same as the Canyon, which was professionally fitted, so it fits like a glove. Uphill it is pretty much as fast as the Orbea (possibly a fraction faster), downhill it looses out to the Canyon and Orbea, probably due to lack of deeper rim wheels. As it is a recent purchase, I am lacking some data, but looks like it is 4% slower than Canyon and 1%-2% slower than Orbea.... This is a bike that cost 1/25th of the price of the Canyon.

In Summary, TT bike is appreciably faster than other bikes (no surprise here). The road bikes are remarkably close despite a huge variance in cost, on an Olympic distance Triathlon, my 140 bargain is around 3 minutes slower than a 3000 superbike and 5 mins slower than a TT bike

New bikes are lovely, and there are loads of reasons to get one... however, if you are justifying your purchase on performance or a new PB, then a cheap, great "old" bike is almost as good
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

is the geometry of the Festina the same as the Canyon?
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 493
Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
is the geometry of the Festina the same as the Canyon?


Not quite, seat tube is slightly longer on Festina,so saddle set lower, Top tube is 3cm longer, but stem is 2cm shorter on Festina, so saddle is set 1cm forward, drop is the same by taking all spacers out, rear stays shorter on Festina (no disc, much less tyre clearance - can get a 25mm tyre on it, but no bigger). BB angle is bigger (more relaxed) on Festina, but this is mainly neutralized by having saddle further forward.

In terms of fit, it feels spot on
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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 381
Location: Preston

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I concur Matt.
My route has hunters hill IMUK every 6 miles.
It's a nasty little climb and ten of them in 60 miles is a hard slog on the last few.
My Felt is 6.71kgs with aerobars, pedals, cagesx2 bottles empty x2, top box and pump. That's with zipp 303"s It's sub 6 ( naked) as opposed to my Argon
E116 that's 8 kg with Xentis 55mm Tt wheels.
Keeping to hr over the 60 miles the Felt is slightly faster, 1-2%.

On a flat run the Tt bike is +5% faster.

Looking at building an early Scott plasma to get in the middle. Totalbuild cost 1500, excluding wheels I have too many already!

Hope your going well?
When you racing?
Gary
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 493
Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mungo wrote:
I concur Matt.
My route has hunters hill IMUK every 6 miles.
It's a nasty little climb and ten of them in 60 miles is a hard slog on the last few.
My Felt is 6.71kgs with aerobars, pedals, cagesx2 bottles empty x2, top box and pump. That's with zipp 303"s It's sub 6 ( naked) as opposed to my Argon
E116 that's 8 kg with Xentis 55mm Tt wheels.
Keeping to hr over the 60 miles the Felt is slightly faster, 1-2%.

On a flat run the Tt bike is +5% faster.

Looking at building an early Scott plasma to get in the middle. Totalbuild cost 1500, excluding wheels I have too many already!

Hope your going well?

When you racing?
Gary


Thanks Gary

I have IM Rapperswil 70.3 10 June and IM Switzerland 29 July.

I am doing Rapperswil my cousin, who is doing his first middle distance and wanted to do an IM branded event (the power or marketing), however, it is a bit expensive doing an IM event as a warm up to my A race

All things going well, I am on course for IM Switzerland in 10 hours... So far this year I have stayed injury and accident free, makes a change from last year
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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 381
Location: Preston

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

10 hours .....!
First Ironman?!
I know you have a strong bike but... Jesus

Do you mean 10 dead or 10:59:59 which on a good day, with the wind behind me all the way, perfect nutrition and the tri gods shining on me is probably still not doable but I may get close?!?

The bike is flatish? Strange for Switzerland.
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Buzz_




Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 338

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting data Matt. While I agree that the /min for the superbike is hard to stomach, 3min in an Olympic trip is huge, tough to find that in the swim or run. Then again, data suggests any TT bike will probably beat them all, no need to spend 3k to get most of those benefits.

Are those times with similar power, or are some setups easier to generate more power?

Good luck with your races this summer.
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 493
Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mungo wrote:
10 hours .....!
First Ironman?!
I know you have a strong bike but... Jesus

Do you mean 10 dead or 10:59:59 which on a good day, with the wind behind me all the way, perfect nutrition and the tri gods shining on me is probably still not doable but I may get close?!?

The bike is flatish? Strange for Switzerland.


It will be my second IM, first was 11h20m, but with just 3 weeks running after 4 months off with injury... I was still injured, but completed the run in 4h30m

IM Switzerland ride is strange, 2 laps, each lap has 55km dead flat, 35km rolling hills, with one reasonable climb and one short steep climb. I have ridden the course a couple of times

Last week did a Mountain bike hill climb completion, with 1200m climbing, followed immediately by a 32km charity run (I only just made the start, riding straight from MB race), and ran 2h20m, which translates to sub 3h10m Marathon (assuming I could maintain 5min/km, I was running under that the whole run). I am under no illusions that 10h will be easy, but if I get nutrition right I think that it is possible. Swim will be my biggest challenge - I will certainly lose at least 10 mins to other people doing 10hrs.

I certainly need the tri gods, and NO wind
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 493
Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buzz_ wrote:
Interesting data Matt. While I agree that the /min for the superbike is hard to stomach, 3min in an Olympic trip is huge, tough to find that in the swim or run. Then again, data suggests any TT bike will probably beat them all, no need to spend 3k to get most of those benefits.

Are those times with similar power, or are some setups easier to generate more power?

Good luck with your races this summer.


My TT bike cost 1100 plus about 500 to upgrade to Di2 and another 500 on wheels

I only have power data on TT bike and Canyon, on my fastest effort on a 22km Strava segment, which has no traffic lights, power on TT bike was 5W higher, but HR was 5bpm lower and time was 2min 04s faster (time was just over 30 mins). This could suggest that it is easier to generate power on TT bike, or that the PM are reading slightly differently

At some point I will add clip on Aerobars to my 140 bike, and see if that makes a difference

Agree with your point that 3mins is a lot on an OD Tri, especially if going for higher places and looking at marginal gains, however, how many people lose a lot more than 3 mins on the run due to poor nutrition on the bike?
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 493
Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



140 bike in Switzerland, 10 speed Campag Chorus groupset. Interesting fact is that this is the last Aluminum bike entered by a works team at the TDF

It rides very nicely, in fact it rides pretty much as well as it did brand new
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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
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Location: Preston

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My TT bike cost 1100 plus about 500 to upgrade to Di2 and another 500 on wheels

My Argon runs me 2400 ish with the 9100 chainset, Easton attacks and Xentis 60 mm Tt wheels. The di2 makes the bike.

I'd like a Canyon speedmax next.

Matt what time are you looking at for your 70.3?
Hard/ easy course?
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Gary, I haven't really considered my race strategy yet. the bike is 2 laps, 10k flat, 10k big climb, 25k gradual descent, with a bump or 2. I like big climbs so should suit me well. The run is flat other than 53 steps to the old town on each lap. By all accounts the stairs are tough.

I could aim for a 4h45m, alternatively in order not to disrupt training too much, I may back off and do a little over 5h
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Pebble 2




Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 1386
Location: Rhondda land

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What threw me way off my "target" time at IMCH was the heat.....2hrs in fact, I melted Smile
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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt
How do you back off, in a race with a number in?

I guess you ll be 4:45 ish.

Good luck.
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mungo wrote:
Matt
How do you back off, in a race with a number in?

I guess you ll be 4:45 ish.

Good luck.


Absolutely true.... however, if I don't do so well, I can always say that it was a training race, and I backed off


I live in Zurich, so unelss it suddenly gets warm, the temperature won't come as a surprise, it has already been a very warm spring, with several days around 28 degrees. The other issue with Zurich is the altitude, it is over 400m above sea level, this does have an impact
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