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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1620
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 2:49 pm    Post subject: Salt Tabs Reply with quote

Anyone got any thoughts on salt tabs. Any pros or cons. Any issues?

Iíve never used them before, but if this warm weather continues then I think they may come in handy for my ultra next Friday. Iíve always used High 5 tabs, and will continue to do so for my drinks, but Iím a sweater. And could do with some more salty air support in case I get sick of the flavoured drinks or just need a bigger hit. I donít think cramp is going to be a friendly addition to 24 hrs of hills!

Cheers
GB
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Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 216

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've used salt sticks for the last 4 years, no negative effects for me.
I've now switched my fueling to Tailwind though which I thought was popular with the ultra guys. Tailwind is a complete food/salt solution.
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1779

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you tried Precision Hydration stuff? I seem to have totally solved my historic cramping issues by pre-loading with, and then using while racing, their 1500 product. Compared to High5, the sodium content is 3x higher (1,500mg per litre in PH1500, versus 250mg per 500ml with a single high5 zero tablet).

I'm the definition of a heavy salty sweater. In my oly yesterday, on a not particularly hot day, my black tri shorts were nearly white.

I do have some of the PH sodium capsules too, but have found them to give some mild stomach cramp sensations when I've tried them. I use occasionally in training after big sessions, but because of that reaction have never used them so far whilst racing.

EDIT - PH do tab versions of their high sodium products too, but I've not tried those, only the sachets.
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tin pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pseudoscience.
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Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 216

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
Pseudoscience.


That does seem to be the opinion of the regulars on here when I have asked about salt before. Honestly though the web pages that were linked to that make that case seemed a bit bogus to me.
From what I can tell, with the best nutrition advice available, all the pros take salt.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
Pseudoscience.


in what way?
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1620
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty certain i lose salt when i sweat, and it stands that that needs to be replaced, the same as water? I'm sure there's plenty of marketing nonsense in and around to sell each individual product, but surely the need for electrolyte balancing is pretty well established?!?

I've bought some salt sticks, and will check out that precision hydration stuff as well. I don't really want to be taking the complete stuff like Tailwind I don't think. I prefer 'real' food on my ultras as my stomach is pretty tough and i've not given myself a long enough lead-in to try it out. Might give that a go in the future though.
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Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 216

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerbongo wrote:
Pretty certain i lose salt when i sweat, and it stands that that needs to be replaced, the same as water? I'm sure there's plenty of marketing nonsense in and around to sell each individual product, but surely the need for electrolyte balancing is pretty well established?!?

I've bought some salt sticks, and will check out that precision hydration stuff as well. I don't really want to be taking the complete stuff like Tailwind I don't think. I prefer 'real' food on my ultras as my stomach is pretty tough and i've not given myself a long enough lead-in to try it out. Might give that a go in the future though.



Definitely worth a try a some point. I have just knocked 9 mins off my half IM run time & I believe the switch from bars to Tailwind on the bike made the difference.
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 1241
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doca wrote:
gingerbongo wrote:
Pretty certain i lose salt when i sweat, and it stands that that needs to be replaced, the same as water? I'm sure there's plenty of marketing nonsense in and around to sell each individual product, but surely the need for electrolyte balancing is pretty well established?!?

I've bought some salt sticks, and will check out that precision hydration stuff as well. I don't really want to be taking the complete stuff like Tailwind I don't think. I prefer 'real' food on my ultras as my stomach is pretty tough and i've not given myself a long enough lead-in to try it out. Might give that a go in the future though.



Definitely worth a try a some point. I have just knocked 9 mins off my half IM run time & I believe the switch from bars to Tailwind on the bike made the difference.


No other training, no change in race conditions, preparation or strategy ???? Nutrition for a half is pretty minimal... 9 mins (circa 10%) off a 1/2 marathon is a massive improvement!!!
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Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 216

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

twhat wrote:
Doca wrote:
gingerbongo wrote:
Pretty certain i lose salt when i sweat, and it stands that that needs to be replaced, the same as water? I'm sure there's plenty of marketing nonsense in and around to sell each individual product, but surely the need for electrolyte balancing is pretty well established?!?

I've bought some salt sticks, and will check out that precision hydration stuff as well. I don't really want to be taking the complete stuff like Tailwind I don't think. I prefer 'real' food on my ultras as my stomach is pretty tough and i've not given myself a long enough lead-in to try it out. Might give that a go in the future though.



Definitely worth a try a some point. I have just knocked 9 mins off my half IM run time & I believe the switch from bars to Tailwind on the bike made the difference.


No other training, no change in race conditions, preparation or strategy ???? Nutrition for a half is pretty minimal... 9 mins (circa 10%) off a 1/2 marathon is a massive improvement!!!


Indeed. I have never had the run in a half or a full triathlon like my stand alone runs suggest I should. I have done around a 1:40 run at Outlaw half for the last 3 years. My IM run in Austria in 2015 was 4:01 and 3:50 in Italy last year. The same thing happens every time, my thighs feel like they have turned to wood & it is a battle not to walk in the last 1/3rd. Of course the first thing you think is that I have over biked as that is my strongest discipline but the sensation it exactly the same as happens at 19 miles in a marathon when the carbs run out.
I have been getting steadily stronger over time setting new PBs & I'm in good shape after training for London marathon but still On Sunday in the heat I ran a 1:30 half after biking 3 watts more than last year too. It's not just the time, it was the sensation of actually running freely setting the fastest splits in the last km's. It was like night and day different. When I cross the line I am normally straight into the John Wayne walk, on Sunday I could have jogged to the food tent no bother.
My normal nutrition strategy is a Wiggle energy bar (60g carbs) every 45-60 mins on the bike, these go down easily and I have always believed this was smart getting exactly the right amount of carbs in. On Sunday I tried Tailwind instead after reading good reviews and a few comments from the pros write-ups using a liquid fuel strategy.
I think my increase in fitness is too sutle to be the difference.
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1620
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've bought some salt sticks, though the weather looks like it's dropping off now. still, no harm in having a few in the pack.

I'm also going to throw caution to the wind and have bought the 7 x tester pack of tailwind. The reviews all look good, and they're pretty mild, so i don't foresee any major issues.

Fingers crossed!
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Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 216

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck, be interesting to see how you go with it.
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1620
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got a lot of time for that Tailwind, it went down nicely.

I tended to cycle through High5 zero electrolyte tabs, saltstick capsules and the tailwind stuff (as well as normal food). All seemed to come through ok on a very humid first day and a very hot second day. Didn't suffer a single bit of cramp, which i often do, and can't say (on reflection) that i was super salty i.e. no telltale white marks all over my clothes so i can only assume that i got this element of my race very right!

That's a nice thought! haha .
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tuckandgo




Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 401

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Doca"][quote="twhat"][quote="Doca"]
gingerbongo wrote:
Pretty c
My normal nutrition strategy is a Wiggle energy bar (60g carbs) every 45-60 mins on the bike, these go down easily and I have always believed this was smart getting exactly the right amount of carbs in. On Sunday I tried Tailwind instead after reading good reviews and a few comments from the pros write-ups using a liquid fuel strategy.
I think my increase in fitness is too sutle to be the difference.



I thought tailwind might be a secret recipe, but it sounds like it's just a variation on an energy drink.

I'm amazed (with respect) that you or anyone, thinks that solid nutrition is the way to go. Energy drink/mix/whatever you want to call it/ (as it should have electrolytes in it,) should be your base energy provider. Then top up with gels and solid food as you need/enjoy.

You need a lot more than carbs and water to keep going on a 4hr+ event, I thought that was general knowledge.

I would imagine that an ironman on water and energy bars only would a recipe for disaster.
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1620
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="tuckandgo"][quote="Doca"][quote="twhat"]
Doca wrote:
gingerbongo wrote:
Pretty c
My normal nutrition strategy is a Wiggle energy bar (60g carbs) every 45-60 mins on the bike, these go down easily and I have always believed this was smart getting exactly the right amount of carbs in. On Sunday I tried Tailwind instead after reading good reviews and a few comments from the pros write-ups using a liquid fuel strategy.
I think my increase in fitness is too sutle to be the difference.



I thought tailwind might be a secret recipe, but it sounds like it's just a variation on an energy drink.

I'm amazed (with respect) that you or anyone, thinks that solid nutrition is the way to go. Energy drink/mix/whatever you want to call it/ (as it should have electrolytes in it,) should be your base energy provider. Then top up with gels and solid food as you need/enjoy.

You need a lot more than carbs and water to keep going on a 4hr+ event, I thought that was general knowledge.

I would imagine that an ironman on water and energy bars only would a recipe for disaster.


This was a 25.5 hr 100 mile coastal ultra. I didn't really fancy being stuck on energy drink for that period of time. Tailwind was just a nice, not so sweet alternatoive that i hadn't tried before. I have a wide range of food, certainly not energy bars ... pizza, chilli and wedges, soup, crisps, cakes, everything and anything, topped up with electrolytes.

*EDIT* I think your 'quote' function didn't quite work properly and you were directly replying to Doca and not me as the website displayed it.
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