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GrahamO




Joined: 10 Apr 2005
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Location: United Arab Emirates or an airport

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jibberjim wrote:
GrahamO wrote:
jibberjim wrote:
The transfer passengers - yes, they're not coming here anyway - so nothing is lost


Wrong - their APD subsidises the rest.


International - international transfer passengers do not pay APD - APD is only on flights that originate in the UK, the UK gets no money other than on the marginal profit the private enterprises make from the extra passengers. For domestic transfers the APD money will be the same if they change in DUB or AMS.

GrahamO wrote:

The demand exceeds the capacity Industry and Torism says so. Which bit don't you understand? More people want to come on business and more on holidays and there isnt the capacity. Stop assuming what you want is what others want.


So put the price up, and if you're claiming it's based on a financial return, you know that the financial return of a larger LGW was a better investment? Personally, I want a larger, cheaper LHR, I live in a great place for it - costs me almost nothing to get to, am sufficiently off the flightpath that I have no noise problems.

GrahamO wrote:
The bit you keep sticking your head in the sand over is that people WANT TO COME TO HEATHROW TO GET TO LONDON. They dont want to go to east Anglia, the south coast or anywhere else that isnt Heathrow.


So, charge them for the privilige... Stick an LHR tax on them...


Jim - its clear you must live nearby as your obsession is to scare people off from coming to the UK.

Thats not the plan. We need people to come - not reduce numbers and screw them until they go away.
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GrahamO




Joined: 10 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
GrahamO wrote:
The busiest airport is Dubai and it only has two runways but it uses A380's increasingly to get traffic levels up.


This is what I was hinting at above. I assume this approach has been looked at and dismissed as not viable for LHR?


Of course, because DXB has the advantage that its home team run 110 A380's and it'll rise to 150+.

For LHR to do the same, there would be multiple airlines all needed ito use the A380 and the fact is that there isnt the demand from most locations to use the A380 for its capacity. LHR covers most of Europe and not many European airports have the traffic demand to come to LHR using an A380.
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Tony Stark




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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
But yes, tourists think London, and then probably Scotland?

The No.2 tourist attraction in UK outside Central London is Bicester Shopping Village Rolling Eyes
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony Stark wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
But yes, tourists think London, and then probably Scotland?

The No.2 tourist attraction in UK outside Central London is Bicester Shopping Village Rolling Eyes


Ah yes, I did hear it was very popular with Asian visitors; maybe the Rapha Archive store in particular?
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tin pot




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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you’re interested in the economics of airports you should probably have a look at freight rather than passengers.
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Gus




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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are we now going through the biggest stitch-up in history?

It appears that May, Robbins and the cabal of Remainers in Govt completely sidelined Davis and his team all along. Robbins was the one dealing directly with the EU, and the Chequers agreement was put together entirely without any input from Cabinet. Even 'cleared' by Merkel before it was presented to the Cabinet.

This is not a good sign for 'democracy'... people are starting to get pretty angry...

So, is it all just going to die down as usual and the apathetic sheep just shrug their woolly shoulders and say 'oh well' and they get away with it?

Or is there sufficient anger for a proper democratic backlash?

One thing is certain, the Conservative Party is toast at the moment. Will this anger last until the next GE? Or, again, will people's memories be short and they'll get away with it once more...?

This is surely one of the most sorry periods in this nation's political history, when even a Marxist comes across as more trustworthy and reliable.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus wrote:
Are we now going through the biggest stitch-up in history?

It appears that May, Robbins and the cabal of Remainers in Govt completely sidelined Davis and his team all along. Robbins was the one dealing directly with the EU, and the Chequers agreement was put together entirely without any input from Cabinet. Even 'cleared' by Merkel before it was presented to the Cabinet.

This is not a good sign for 'democracy'... people are starting to get pretty angry...

So, is it all just going to die down as usual and the apathetic sheep just shrug their woolly shoulders and say 'oh well' and they get away with it?

Or is there sufficient anger for a proper democratic backlash?

One thing is certain, the Conservative Party is toast at the moment. Will this anger last until the next GE? Or, again, will people's memories be short and they'll get away with it once more...?

This is surely one of the most sorry periods in this nation's political history, when even a Marxist comes across as more trustworthy and reliable.


It's all toast....
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus

As this is an area of concern to me (and probable annoyance to some here) I will comment on your concerns and go.

Bearing in mind that I predicted prior to the referendum (and is verifiable if anyone cared to do some legwork) that the vote would be to leave, but something would happen that would mean it didn’t happen. I have been, as usual laughed at on both counts.

Some months ago I wavered on the net, and said that I wish that I had the self confidence to stick to my guns, but perhaps it world be a Brexit in name only to save face. Legally out, but in all respects (except for a seat at the table) in. Form over substance for accountants here.

As I “follow the energy threads” I can’t differentiate a Brexit in name only from no Brexit.

Anyhow Gus your points....


“Are we now going through the biggest stitch-up in history?”

Possibly. Brexit seems to have been all about career enhancement, The will of the people and doing what is right, seems somewhat secondary.



“It appears that May, Robbins and the cabal of Remainers in Govt completely sidelined Davis and his team all along. Robbins was the one dealing directly with the EU, and the Chequers agreement was put together entirely without any input from Cabinet. Even 'cleared' by Merkel before it was presented to the Cabinet.

This is not a good sign for 'democracy'... people are starting to get pretty angry... “


Understandable. While I am a europhile and I think leaving is nuts, politicians really should work for the people. Transparency, honesty, integrity are important, though all too often seemingly lacking in politicians. Especially when they group think. It’s terribly sad.



“So, is it all just going to die down as usual and the apathetic sheep just shrug their woolly shoulders and say 'oh well' and they get away with it? “

No I don’t think so. The Tories have harmed too many, from infecting fear into families, bureaucratic pass the blame nonsense, finding magic money trees when it suits, to Brexit. The fractures are deep and it is destroying the government, though I doubt that many see it. Worse it has destroyed families. There is still a lot of waking up realisations to come and it ain’t gong to be pretty for anyone who joined the bandwagon and got on board with Cameron and his pals.

There won’t be riots in the streets, but a realisation that how we have been governed since Cameron isn’t who we are. This should lead to better future governments (post Corbyn labour) as wiser politicians are elected.



“Or is there sufficient anger for a proper democratic backlash?”

Injecting fear intro society isn’t good. The government have been doing it for what a decade, so yes there is a lot of anger. But see my explanation above it’s not to the streets French style anger, more British we screwed up.

Interestingly I think that the backlash will come from the Conservative party. Once it, Profumo affair style finally exhausts with all the fire fighting, and it is out of government and unelectable, it will coldly reflect on how people who gave good speeches did what they did. It should build a better framework for future power, that will be copied by other parties. 30 years down the line we should have good government.



“One thing is certain, the Conservative Party is toast at the moment.”

Couldn’t agree more. I think many underestimate this. Just wait until the party looks for scapegoats from within to blame, it will come close to self destruction, as ordinary members see the harm that has been done in communities. And as people realise that they bought into a sop of nonsense.



“ Will this anger last until the next GE? Or, again, will people's memories be short and they'll get away with it once more...? “


I don’t think so, too many people know too many people who have been harmed, whether at food banks, driven to suicide, or worried about business profits.

“This is surely one of the most sorry periods in this nation's political history, when even a Marxist comes across as more trustworthy and reliable”

Indeed. The historic account of this period will not be good and positive.



That all said, I did rather like Cameron in his early days. I thought that he might do some good. But it went so wrong so quickly on so many fronts. I for one have learnt lessons from that.


Now what is going to happen....

While a Brexit is name only is still the most likely thing in a bid to save face and keep power, it isn’t in any real sense going to happen (except for loosing Influence). Still wish I was self confident enough to say it won’t happen full stop, but I can see how looks matter to politicians. (Eg UK laws being just a carbon copy of EU laws). ‘‘ This is a future know myself learning point for me.
The Conservative party will collapse. It’s taking longer than I expected, but it’s going to be brutal. Profumo style.
I have zero idea how Labour will perform. Been too busy focusing on the Tories (I am an ex party member who is disgusted at the last decade).
The country will wake up to the need for politicians to work for the country and not for career enhancement. Which will be a positive outcome. This will take a decade. It will strengthen democracy.
Yes there will be some unrest by Brexiteers who feel betrayed, but the police can deal with that if need be.


Anyhow, that’s me. At the moment I am far more concerned by getting my mind around the America China Thucydides Trap, and the upcoming serious global issues concerning America and in 3 decades China. While hoping that the EU, or if not then Russia, can step up their game to help balance our world during an upcoming difficult time. Sadly global war within a decade or so is way too possible.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with those seeking some utopian society is that all previous attempts have not only failed, they have failed miserably and catastrophically.
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GrahamO




Joined: 10 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
The problem with those seeking some utopian society is that all previous attempts have not only failed, they have failed miserably and catastrophically.


The biggest enemy of the good, is the best. Trying to achieve the unobtainable perfection rather than accepting a decent compromise which isnt perfect but suits the vast majority.
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Breaking news just now...

Theresa May announces she will keep UK under EU laws for another 21 months, risking Brexiteer fury - The Independent

So we now know that it is a Brexit in name only at exit date.


For brexiteers here, I feel for you. Sure I disagree with your stance, but you really must be furious. And I can understand that.


Sorry, had to comment on this. Just ignore me, everyone else does. I am offsky again.

Suppose I had better start looking further ahead in my Brexit predictions now.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
Breaking news just now...

Theresa May announces she will keep UK under EU laws for another 21 months, risking Brexiteer fury - The Independent

So we now know that it is a Brexit in name only at exit date.


For brexiteers here, I feel for you. Sure I disagree with your stance, but you really must be furious. And I can understand that.


Sorry, had to comment on this. Just ignore me, everyone else does. I am offsky again.

Suppose I had better start looking further ahead in my Brexit predictions now.


the lack of moral fibre in this country and across parts of europe is really quite telling...

I am really quite surprised by how willingly democracy has been given away. i hope the next generation will be made of sterner stuff because they are going to need it.

i spent the morning at the Occupation Museum in Tallinn...it should be on the curriculum of all european children...
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ejc

As a bod who is interested in our future, here is an extract from my most recent letter to the Economist (more of a winge than a letter I give you, but I am tired of them being six months behind me..but they are getting better in that regard, I think my hassling has been listened to/or coincidence).

This weeks Free Exchange..

““If political leaders tried it, they might well find that redistribution is a winner at the ballot box.”

Indeed. I would suggest that this (growing inequality and improvising the poor) is where Western powers that be have screwed up over recent decades. And is what has led to the rise of populist politicians. More worryingly it could lead to the West loosing effective democracy very fast, think within a decade not decades. And all because of greed, and an ideological belief that the poor benefit from growth at the top, and presumably the belief that the poor respond in ways rich people do. They don’t.

I pointed this out to our government a decade ago now. But as normal nobody ever listens to me.

Sadly it will take at least a decade for these errors to fully play though, I just hope that we are in reasonable shape when we come out the other side. But the odds don’t look good.

Twenty years ago, given the opportunity I could have helped prevent current EU woes, in another decade, given the opportunity, I could help rebuild the Conservative party, and after that help with China as it really does take over the global leadership reigns. Just now I can only watch with anguish as our world order shifts so rapidly that global war really is possible within a decade. To be blunt, it worries me, but until the underlying problems are faced up to effective solutions won’t be found.

Someone please switch on the light. I tried, I was ignored.

The solution is simple btw. Stop playing politics. Start with the wisdom of broad based life experience being used wisely and cautiously for the benefit of people. The rest will then sort itself.

Else you will be writing about global war before too long. (The more domestic problems, the more externalisation, and the more externalisation, the greater chance of conflict). Just hope you lead the curve and not lag the curve on that one.

Remember I out predicted you on Trump (about a year in advance)and Brexit (just before the referendum). But past performance is no indication of the future blah de blah.”


Ejc, we both worry about the future, of me it’s avoiding ww3 that is the main concern, and that is getting closer and closer the day. Currently I am about 40% likely over next decade. Which is too scary.

You want our next generation of leaders to be better, I want our current leaders to seriously up their game fast.

Anyhow, as this isn’t the place for this I will go quiet.
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Gus




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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

May managing to stay in position is currently defying the laws of physics.

I suspect the only reason is because most backbench MP's know if they get their letters in to the 1922 committee to force a vote of no confidence, it may inadvertently trigger a GE. In that, they will currently be annihilated.

So it's probably purely down to selfish 'career' before 'party' before 'country' attitudes. My contempt for them has managed to scale new heights.

UKIP were up to 8% from 3% in the last poll after her Chequers fudge - I sense the political landscape of the UK is going to undergo a significantly seismic shift over the next few years.

Our choice is currently between a Marxist and quite possibly the worst PM in memory (and that even includes the tw@t Bliar). Because of that, it's likely 2-party politics is about to hit the iceberg and we'll be into quite interesting territory.

17.4m voters are currently seriously very, very p1ssed off. That's one hell of a voting weight, angry and out for vengeance.

Whichever side of the debate you're on, I guess we're all agreed we have been profoundly let down by the Government.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
Ejc

As a bod who is interested in our future, here is an extract from my most recent letter to the Economist (more of a winge than a letter I give you, but I am tired of them being six months behind me..but they are getting better in that regard, I think my hassling has been listened to/or coincidence).

This weeks Free Exchange..

““If political leaders tried it, they might well find that redistribution is a winner at the ballot box.”

Indeed. I would suggest that this (growing inequality and improvising the poor) is where Western powers that be have screwed up over recent decades. And is what has led to the rise of populist politicians. More worryingly it could lead to the West loosing effective democracy very fast, think within a decade not decades. And all because of greed, and an ideological belief that the poor benefit from growth at the top, and presumably the belief that the poor respond in ways rich people do. They don’t.

I pointed this out to our government a decade ago now. But as normal nobody ever listens to me.

Sadly it will take at least a decade for these errors to fully play though, I just hope that we are in reasonable shape when we come out the other side. But the odds don’t look good.

Twenty years ago, given the opportunity I could have helped prevent current EU woes, in another decade, given the opportunity, I could help rebuild the Conservative party, and after that help with China as it really does take over the global leadership reigns. Just now I can only watch with anguish as our world order shifts so rapidly that global war really is possible within a decade. To be blunt, it worries me, but until the underlying problems are faced up to effective solutions won’t be found.

Someone please switch on the light. I tried, I was ignored.

The solution is simple btw. Stop playing politics. Start with the wisdom of broad based life experience being used wisely and cautiously for the benefit of people. The rest will then sort itself.

Else you will be writing about global war before too long. (The more domestic problems, the more externalisation, and the more externalisation, the greater chance of conflict). Just hope you lead the curve and not lag the curve on that one.

Remember I out predicted you on Trump (about a year in advance)and Brexit (just before the referendum). But past performance is no indication of the future blah de blah.”


Ejc, we both worry about the future, of me it’s avoiding ww3 that is the main concern, and that is getting closer and closer the day. Currently I am about 40% likely over next decade. Which is too scary.

You want our next generation of leaders to be better, I want our current leaders to seriously up their game fast.

Anyhow, as this isn’t the place for this I will go quiet.


You don't avoid war by creating an unelected super power....read the gulag archipelago to understand why....
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