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Gauntlet, Hever Castle Bike Course Recce
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tin pot




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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:21 pm    Post subject: Gauntlet, Hever Castle Bike Course Recce Reply with quote

Finally did some reconnaissance on the bike course this evening - now Iím sitting in the Pantiles with most of a pint of Seafarers gone before Iíve sat down!

I know parts of it well, but this was the first time for some bits. I started at the Fordham downhill section about halfway around. Imo itís pretty good mostly downhill with no major climbing from there to Hever until you get close to the castle and the road starts turning #@?#. As you climb out itís a fair climb but as the standard course guys turn left, we turn right into the #@?# roads I will ever have raced on. I would not want to be hitting his part fast, which is fine because Iím pooped getting there Wink

Then as it heads out toward Hartfield it gets very nice, sweeping downhills and climbs and it all seems a bit less stressful.

Unfortunately as I thought I was getting to the turn back at Blackhill, I had in fact missed a turning which added a huge climb and probably twenty minutes to my ride and all my optimism with it.

When I found Blackhill it was a lovely ridge to get there with great views and the turn back is an amazing downhill I canít wait to do on closed roads. Unfortunately there is still a *lot* of climbing and descending to get to groom ridge and the Fordham descent.

My power meter said I averaged 193W off an FTP of 243 thatís a touch light but it was bloody hard work. Iím thinking this could be another Wimbleball disaster for me!

Laughing

Anyone else know the course?
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fat buddha




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:47 am    Post subject: Re: Gauntlet, Hever Castle Bike Course Recce Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
Finally did some reconnaissance on the bike course this evening - now Iím sitting in the Pantiles with most of a pint of Seafarers gone before Iíve sat down!

I know parts of it well, but this was the first time for some bits. I started at the Fordham downhill section about halfway around. Imo itís pretty good mostly downhill with no major climbing from there to Hever until you get close to the castle and the road starts turning #@?#. As you climb out itís a fair climb but as the standard course guys turn left, we turn right into the #@?# roads I will ever have raced on. I would not want to be hitting his part fast, which is fine because Iím pooped getting there Wink

Then as it heads out toward Hartfield it gets very nice, sweeping downhills and climbs and it all seems a bit less stressful.

Unfortunately as I thought I was getting to the turn back at Blackhill, I had in fact missed a turning which added a huge climb and probably twenty minutes to my ride and all my optimism with it.

When I found Blackhill it was a lovely ridge to get there with great views and the turn back is an amazing downhill I canít wait to do on closed roads. Unfortunately there is still a *lot* of climbing and descending to get to groom ridge and the Fordham descent.

My power meter said I averaged 193W off an FTP of 243 thatís a touch light but it was bloody hard work. Iím thinking this could be another Wimbleball disaster for me!

Laughing

Anyone else know the course?


errm - there are no closed roads on the course.
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hammerer
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roads are open!

oh and not too bad? The course is relentless. Even the pro's are only hitting 2:40's If you break 3hrs you'll be doing very well. oh and then the hilly, mainly off road trail run! At the top of the forest if you head down to Marefield and back up, that's the Bastion route of 37miles! try doing that 3 times!
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tin pot




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh FFS! I hate open roads. Downhilling some of those sections on a TT bike is going to be ďexcitingĒ then! Maybe stick with the roadie but it would feel like such a cop out.

Tried to do some analysis of the power file, but there are some spurious numbers that reduce my confidence in it eg Avg power for the lap was 193W on the device at the time, in Golden Cheetah it says 177W...but from my experience thereís no really tough climbs (except for my detour to Kidds Hill). I managed to hold around 200W getting up them anyway apart from a few where I decided a standing 300W was in order. I think itís the number of ascents rather than the steepness that makes it a slow course...if that matters...Iím still 80 something kilos instead of the 60 something elites carry.

Iím going to do a run course recce next week, although Iím not sure how easy following the map will be. If itís like the Olympic route two years ago I might remember a good portion.
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Iron Ď17 16h11, '16 14h30
Half Iron Ď18 DNF, '17 7h39, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10K Ď18 50:31 '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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stenard




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seeing as you've done the Olympic before, I struggle to see how you thought it was closed roads?
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Jgav




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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the write up on the bike course. I seem ok on hills compared to others around my speed, so a good course for me. I'll be there on my red and white TCR with clip on bars.

Is the run course, trail shoes or road shoes?
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stenard




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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jgav wrote:
Is the run course, trail shoes or road shoes?

I'd say it depends on the weather. I've done events there a number of times and I've always taken both. I think it was Setp 2015 when the parking fields were an absolute quagmire. Fairly sure I was thankful of trail shoes that day from memory.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Gauntlet, Hever Castle Bike Course Recce Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
Finally did some reconnaissance on the bike course this evening - now Iím sitting in the Pantiles with most of a pint of Seafarers gone before Iíve sat down!

I know parts of it well, but this was the first time for some bits. I started at the Fordham downhill section about halfway around. Imo itís pretty good mostly downhill with no major climbing from there to Hever until you get close to the castle and the road starts turning #@?#. As you climb out itís a fair climb but as the standard course guys turn left, we turn right into the #@?# roads I will ever have raced on. I would not want to be hitting his part fast, which is fine because Iím pooped getting there Wink

Then as it heads out toward Hartfield it gets very nice, sweeping downhills and climbs and it all seems a bit less stressful.

Unfortunately as I thought I was getting to the turn back at Blackhill, I had in fact missed a turning which added a huge climb and probably twenty minutes to my ride and all my optimism with it.

When I found Blackhill it was a lovely ridge to get there with great views and the turn back is an amazing downhill I canít wait to do on closed roads. Unfortunately there is still a *lot* of climbing and descending to get to groom ridge and the Fordham descent.

My power meter said I averaged 193W off an FTP of 243 thatís a touch light but it was bloody hard work. Iím thinking this could be another Wimbleball disaster for me!

Laughing

Anyone else know the course?


there's something amiss there...
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tin pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree and why I posted the numbers - I find it impossible to get smooth power numbers outdoors, and I suspect itís the spikes over 500W and intervals over 300W that wear me out.

Also my training plan has had no rides longer than 1.5hrs so I need to acclimatise from the smooth intense indoor rides to the ~3.5hrs up and down Iíll be putting out on July 8th over the next few weeks.
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Iron Ď17 16h11, '16 14h30
Half Iron Ď18 DNF, '17 7h39, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10K Ď18 50:31 '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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tin pot




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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
Jgav wrote:
Is the run course, trail shoes or road shoes?

I'd say it depends on the weather. I've done events there a number of times and I've always taken both. I think it was Setp 2015 when the parking fields were an absolute quagmire. Fairly sure I was thankful of trail shoes that day from memory.


+1

If itís rained in the past couple of days Iíll be bringing trail shoes. Iirc there is always one bit of five to ten meters that becomes a swamp but you can usually edge around it.

Does anyone know the elevation change of the run course?

Iím going to see if I can do a brick next week taking in the run course.
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Iron Ď17 16h11, '16 14h30
Half Iron Ď18 DNF, '17 7h39, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10K Ď18 50:31 '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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stenard




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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
Does anyone know the elevation change of the run course?

Iím going to see if I can do a brick next week taking in the run course.

Strava segment: https://www.strava.com/segments/16115016
Tin Pot wrote:
Agree and why I posted the numbers - I find it impossible to get smooth power numbers outdoors, and I suspect itís the spikes over 500W and intervals over 300W that wear me out.

Also my training plan has had no rides longer than 1.5hrs so I need to acclimatise from the smooth intense indoor rides to the ~3.5hrs up and down Iíll be putting out on July 8th over the next few weeks.

Spikes over 500w? And actual intervals at over 300w? I accept riding outdoors is not as vanilla an effort as indoors on the turbo, but you really need to consciously reign that in. Taking Mallorca, there was the long extended climb where I always planned to work well above target average power for the ride, but even then that was only in the 240-245W region (off an FTP of 250).

There was the one short, sharp climb up into Muro where I did go well over FTP, but even then TrainingPeaks tells me I had max 1min power of 300W, with max 20s power of 400W. But that was literally a one-off in a 2:45 ride.

What's your power target out of interest? Given you said 193 AP is "a touch light", it seems like you have too high an expectation. Given the lumpiness, I would imagine your VI will be quite high, and so based on your FTP, I would have thought NP above 200W would be too high. That will mean an AP of more like 180ish.

For ref, I biked 202 NP, 187 AP at Mallorca, which is not as lumpy and has by far an easier run to follow.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
Agree and why I posted the numbers - I find it impossible to get smooth power numbers outdoors, and I suspect itís the spikes over 500W and intervals over 300W that wear me out.

Also my training plan has had no rides longer than 1.5hrs so I need to acclimatise from the smooth intense indoor rides to the ~3.5hrs up and down Iíll be putting out on July 8th over the next few weeks.


blimey...why on earth do you have spikes over 500W and intervals of 300???
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Jgav




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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting closer now, I'm actually off on a stag do nearish to Hever. Shame I can't take my bike with and it's probably not the best prep a week before a big race.
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tin pot




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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Using this thread to continue analysing the course and plans as Iím doing it again in September.

So I dont know what a good target value is but TrainerRoad tells me I had a TSS of 205, and a ride time of 3:55 (+0:30 in mechanicals and stops). 2100 Calories.

Total elevation gain 1500m.

Average power 175W
Max power 527W

Average speed 23kph
Max speed 85kph

Average cadence 75rpm
Max cadence 127rpm

Max temp 28įC (but other reports had it as 32įC)

Iím think reduce the TSS, increase speed...so the only answer is weight loss.
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Iron Ď17 16h11, '16 14h30
Half Iron Ď18 DNF, '17 7h39, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10K Ď18 50:31 '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1851

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What was your NP, and what is your presumed estimate of FTP?
Can you link to the trainerroad file?

You could also have a play around on best bike split. You can perform 3 runs of the aero analyser and predict one race course without signing up.

I've found BBS really helpful, to the extent I signed up.
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