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Disc brake users - your verdict?
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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 383
Location: Preston

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers fellas.
The problem is familiarity.
I rode the IMUK loop with a guy who's racing this year he is not as fast as me.
Off sheephouse he left me for dead as I didn't know the road.
Coming off hunters the reverse happened as this is part of my regular loop.
He's a good descender but I flew past him at 58 kph.
Come next year I will know all the descents and should shift.

I am going to use alloy tracks on carbon wheels.

I used to live on a fishery in the middle of Delamere forest, oh how I miss a 350m doughnut lake! The famous mountain bike trail started 90ms from the front gate.... not for one second did I ever think about getting on a mountain bike, I like most of us do this for a bit of fun and keep fit in my old age, the thought of mud, stones and crashes repulses me.

Being honest I've been on my bike outside everyday for 11 days. I love riding in the sun.
I never ride in the rain.... I'm time rich and it's not for me, I don't have too and it's horrible.
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 591
Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought a Canyon Ultimate with Disc Brakes and I am a complete convert. In the dry, the difference in braking performance is not too much, except you get far better modulation on a disc, so when descending 10km mountain passes you have more confidence (although a good descender on rim brakes has no problem keeping up), also you are not worried about the theoretical possibility of the wheel overheating and rim failing.

However, in the wet it is a different story, disc brakes just work all the time, sun, rain or snow. On a recent Triathlon on my TT bike, got hit by brief rain shower and was shocked when I started to brake for a junction, only just made it round without hitting the island
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Chrace




Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 2817
Location: Eating a Yorkie

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been out a couple of times on the Venge now and so far not much difference really. My old Propel was set up for proper braking with SwissStop pads on alloy rims and this feels about the same. But - I have only been out in the dry.

Doing the Struggle Moors on Sunday which has some steep and fast descending on crap surfaces. Will be nice to see how it handles there although it'll still be all dry.

Hard to compare anyway since there's a lot of new stuff on this bike. Discs, tubeless, specialized tires, different geometry, ... oh, and not at all set up for me yet. Those 112 miles will hurt a bit.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slight aside, but you mentioned tubeless, which I'm yet to try. But even the difference between older rims & modern wider rims is noticeable regarding tyre profile& comfort. My 28mm Contis are really plush on modern wide Reynolds rims, and I can run them at lower pressure.

My Canyon Endurace had converted me to hydro disc and fat road tyres, it's just such a joy to ride. Rims are tubeless ready, so I guess when the Contis wear-out, I should give it a try.
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Whisk




Joined: 09 Jun 2005
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Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:
you are not worried about the theoretical possibility of the wheel overheating and rim failing.



I've seen people have high speed blow outs when they've overheated their alloy rims in the Alps and I know at least two people who've delaminated their carbon rims on long, hot, technical Alpine descents, so it's a real problem. If I was planning on doing lots of riding in the mountains then I'd definitely be looking at disc brakes.

Dry weather braking in most circumstances is not much better than good, well set-up rim brakes, but in the wet the performance is so much more reassuring. In the wet, the level of grip offered by your tyres becomes the limiting factor.
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GrahamO




Joined: 10 Apr 2005
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Location: United Arab Emirates or an airport

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whisk wrote:
so it's a real problem.


Of course but as the probability that you will be kicked to death by a donkey on your way to work tomorrow is greater, are you seriously saying that its a risk you go out to actively manage ? How do you protect yourself against those donkeys every day ? Rolling Eyes

Use disc brakes all you like IMO but for 99.9 % recurring of miles travelled by cyclists, its simply not worth the hassle.

Remember there is no epidemic of wheels failing or bikes crashing due to rim failures, so use disc brakes if you like but you are solving a problem that basically is non-existent.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:

Use disc brakes all you like IMO but for 99.9 % recurring of miles travelled by cyclists, its simply not worth the hassle.


The greater benefit is wet weather use, and better modulation; which is highly pertinent in UK weather conditions. Plus if you buckle your wheel on a pothole, they are less affected. It's also not really much more hassle to maintain them. Have you eschewed buying the latest car because it's harder to maintain at home than you old car from the 90s?

It may be the case that living in the UAE you don't experience a wide range of weather or road conditions that would warrant changing, and that's fair enough. How much riding have you done on a bike with disc brakes?
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GrahamO




Joined: 10 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
The greater benefit is wet weather use, and better modulation; which is highly pertinent in UK weather conditions


Highly pertinent ?

Scale old chum, scale. The UK has about 100 days of precipitation a year, not 365 days. 100 days equates to about 28 weekend days when most people do their long rides, so only 28 days a year. And how many are doing downhills in the wet, where brake modulation matters ? 1 in 10 by miles maybe ? And some of those days are too bad to go out (like snow) so maybe only 25 days maximum a year.

See, you're taking a completely atypical scenario and making it sound like its completely normal for every day. Its simply not. If you lived in the Alps it would be very different, but this is the Uk where 90%+ of the country is flat and disc brakes are of marginal use.

Buckle my wheels ? You're taking a 0.0000001% chance scenario and using it as an excuse, in effect protecting yourself against a donkey with white and blue pots (even less likely).

Jorgan wrote:
It may be the case that living in the UAE you don't experience a wide range of weather or road conditions that would warrant changing, and that's fair enough. How much riding have you done on a bike with disc brakes?


None, because I dont want to waste my money and rightly as you say, its simply unnecessary.

FYI the classic Coast to Coast ride which goes over the Hajjar Mountains at 8,000 feet has practically no disc brake riders.

You cannot escape the simple fact that cuts through all of your points that there is no epidemic of rim failures or crashes.

Buy the if you want as I said, but if you think you have a real need for them then the vast majority are kidding themselves.
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blindcider




Joined: 12 Sep 2013
Posts: 267

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me the best thing about disc brakes is that my rims aren't wearing - vastly increases the lifespan of a wheel (assuming you don't crash it) which makes a tight fisted git like me very happy.
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blindcider




Joined: 12 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:


this is the Uk where 90%+ of the country is flat and disc brakes are of marginal use.

.


Argue against disc brakes all you like but this is a nonsensical statement.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:

You cannot escape the simple fact that cuts through all of your points that there is no epidemic of rim failures or crashes.


That wasn't my argument; it was Whisk.

In typical fashion, you've replied with bluster. Whilst your argument above makes sense for you, it doesn't apply in all cases of road cycling, for all people. You don't have to have sole ownership of the right answer all the time; we can both be right Smile

What about people who commute by bike, they ride 5+ days a week on UK roads? People like me, who actually in all weathers, throughout the winter. Where there are not only hills to ride down, but cars, pedestrians and potholes to avoid. I have also buckled plenty of wheels on UK roads, and broken the odd spoke. You may have noticed I hit a car last week too, in addition to having an impact puncture a few days prior. So this 0.00000001% statistic, much like the '99%' is something you've plucked out of the air.

I used to share your opinion on disc brakes, even when I first got a commuter bike with cheap cable discs; but now I'm converted by a good quality road bike with hydraulic disc brakes that I have ridden year-round, in a lot of poor conditions.
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Last edited by Jorgan on Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:

Scale old chum, scale.


When you start talking in the presence of others, do you find people start trying to drift away, look at their feet or each other?
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Whisk




Joined: 09 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I said in my earlier post, I wouldn't be going out and buying a new bike purely to get disc brakes, even if that's what the cycle industry wants me to do. Unless you're using carbon rims, Dura Ace rim brakes are excellent and the improvement by switching to discs is marginal in most conditions.

BUT if I was to buy a new bike tomorrow, I'd almost certainly be buying one with discs. I think it'd be contrary not to. I don't know what the stats are, but most of the new bikes on the road these days seem to have discs. A lot of the folks riding the HotChillee events buy new bikes for them and they nearly all seem to be using discs now. Before BC legalised discs for road racing, there was a good reason for avoiding disc brakes if you wanted to race, but now most manufacturers offer discs on their bikes at all levels.

The comments about rim failure were related primarily to using carbon rims in the mountains. MattSurf lives in Switzerland, so that's obviously very relevant to him. I wouldn't choose to use carbon rims in the mountains because I know at least 3 people who've delaminated their carbon rims on long alpine descents. If I was using my current bikes I'd use alloy rims with rim brakes and if I was buying a new bike with the intention of using it in the mountains I'd definitely go for disc brakes.
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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 1893
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
The greater benefit is wet weather use, and better modulation; which is highly pertinent in UK weather conditions


Highly pertinent ?

Scale old chum, scale. The UK has about 100 days of precipitation a year, not 365 days. 100 days equates to about 28 weekend days when most people do their long rides, so only 28 days a year. And how many are doing downhills in the wet, where brake modulation matters ? 1 in 10 by miles maybe ? And some of those days are too bad to go out (like snow) so maybe only 25 days maximum a year.

See, you're taking a completely atypical scenario and making it sound like its completely normal for every day. Its simply not. If you lived in the Alps it would be very different, but this is the Uk where 90%+ of the country is flat and disc brakes are of marginal use.

Buckle my wheels ? You're taking a 0.0000001% chance scenario and using it as an excuse, in effect protecting yourself against a donkey with white and blue pots (even less likely).

Jorgan wrote:
It may be the case that living in the UAE you don't experience a wide range of weather or road conditions that would warrant changing, and that's fair enough. How much riding have you done on a bike with disc brakes?


None, because I dont want to waste my money and rightly as you say, its simply unnecessary.

FYI the classic Coast to Coast ride which goes over the Hajjar Mountains at 8,000 feet has practically no disc brake riders.

You cannot escape the simple fact that cuts through all of your points that there is no epidemic of rim failures or crashes.

Buy the if you want as I said, but if you think you have a real need for them then the vast majority are kidding themselves.


I live in North Manchester so nothing is flat and it is rarely dry. Obviously we are having an amazing summer this year but itís was wet from Sept to late April and probably will be again this year.
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GrahamO




Joined: 10 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PCP wrote:
I live in North Manchester so nothing is flat and it is rarely dry. Obviously we are having an amazing summer this year but itís was wet from Sept to late April and probably will be again this year.


Good for you.

Is there an epidemic or even the slightest issue of brake/rim failures ?

No, never has been and never will be. Its a complete non issue and you presumably havent had an issue to date.

People seem very keen to extrapolate a single issue (Manchester has hills) and turn it into 'disc brakes solve the problem' despite there being zero evidence of an issue.

@Jorgan - 5 days a week, all weathers - how many brake/rim failures have you had ? None I would guess, yet you claim the disc brake is a necessity ? Necessary for what exactly ? To stop a failure which has never actually happened ?

Complain about the 00.01% or the 99% numbers but you have absolutely zero stats other than your experience which you again, extrapolate to be 'normality' as an every day event. If you had a crash, why are you not wearing body armour as you're more likely to have another one than have a rim brake fail?

There are actually mountains here, like 8,000ft climbs and descents and nobody uses disc brakes here.

Its not bluster Jorgan - its calling out your logic for the BS it is as you have zero data to justify your claims. Not that you need to justify anything as its entirely a person choice.

@Blindcider - its not non-sensical. Most of the UK is flat, or flat enough such that the advantage of disc brakes is marginal to non-existent. Do explain how a disc brake is superior given most of the Uk is flat, most rides are done in dry conditions and not at high speed on mountain descents.

The issue is too many people cannot do a sensible analysis of the realities of risk because they want to believe. The benefits are only relevant in such a statistically small set of circumstances to be not worth the money.
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