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Disc brake users - your verdict?
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Chrace




Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My commuter has discs and was bought specifically with that in mind. I have a child seat on the back and damn well want to be able to brake in any weather, regardless of if being Monday or Sunday, or if it is only 10% of the time it rains. I don't consider brakes working 9/10 as being acceptable.

My new race bike was not bought specifically to get discs. But since I was in the market for a new one, and primarily do silly hilly races and near-zero flat racing, it was certainly something that weighed in. And if race day is on one of those 10% rainy days it'd be pretty poor choice not to consider it.

Blanket discarding discs for anyone who lives in the UK, or anywhere else, is rather flippant. It completely depends on circumstance.

I'm sure the next statement will be that 99% of people only ever race flat races and never in the wet.
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GrahamO




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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrace wrote:
Blanket discarding discs for anyone who lives in the UK, or anywhere else, is rather flippant. It completely depends on circumstance.


Well said.

Presumably you would agree that blanket claims that disc brakes are the answer to braking in all circumstances and are necessary for everyone is equally flippant which is what people here are saying ?

Why don't you wear your wet weather gear in July for races ?
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Chrace




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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:
@Blindcider - its not non-sensical. Most of the UK is flat, or flat enough such that the advantage of disc brakes is marginal to non-existent. Do explain how a disc brake is superior given most of the Uk is flat, most rides are done in dry conditions and not at high speed on mountain descents.

No, but my main races are in the Lakes and includes 33% descends. "Most", maybe, but that doesn't help when the heavens open up on race day. Or I guess I should just DNS in that case.

GrahamO wrote:
The benefits are only relevant in such a statistically small set of circumstances to be not worth the money.

For you. For me it's not.

And why this continuous obsession with rim brake failures? It's not the main argument here...
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Chrace




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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:
Presumably you would agree that blanket claims that disc brakes are the answer to braking in all circumstances and are necessary for everyone is equally flippant which is what people here are saying ?

Reading back people seem to say it's the same in dry but better in wet?
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GrahamO




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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrace wrote:
No, but my main races are in the Lakes and includes 33% descends. "Most", maybe, but that doesn't help when the heavens open up on race day. Or I guess I should just DNS in that case


Again, you're extrapolating. How much of the race is a 33% descent - 1%, 2% ? You are quoting an insignificant part. Well as you haven't been bailing out on races after the first raindrop, and you didnt have disc brakes I'd say carry on just as before. Or did you cry of every time it rained and you didnt have disc brakes ?

Chrace wrote:
And why this continuous obsession with rim brake failures? It's not the main argument here...


It is when one of the few justifications for the need is quoted by other people to be the risk of rim failures. I don't bring it up - I just point out the BS when others use it as a justification when the actual event are so vanishingly small in frequency.

As I have said, I really don't care if people use them - but trying to claim they are necessary because of rim brake failures is just complete garbage.

So, the question you didnt answer - why don't you wear wet weather gear in the summer ?
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ed_m




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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I quite like mine.
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:
Chrace wrote:
No, but my main races are in the Lakes and includes 33% descends. "Most", maybe, but that doesn't help when the heavens open up on race day. Or I guess I should just DNS in that case


Again, you're extrapolating. How much of the race is a 33% descent - 1%, 2% ? You are quoting an insignificant part. Well as you haven't been bailing out on races after the first raindrop, and you didnt have disc brakes I'd say carry on just as before. Or did you cry of every time it rained and you didnt have disc brakes ?

Chrace wrote:
And why this continuous obsession with rim brake failures? It's not the main argument here...


It is when one of the few justifications for the need is quoted by other people to be the risk of rim failures. I don't bring it up - I just point out the BS when others use it as a justification when the actual event are so vanishingly small in frequency.

As I have said, I really don't care if people use them - but trying to claim they are necessary because of rim brake failures is just complete garbage.

So, the question you didnt answer - why don't you wear wet weather gear in the summer ?


I wouldn't claim that they are necessary, however, I see no downside, and a number of upsides.

I didn't buy a new bike to get disc brakes, however when I did replace my bike in March, Disc Brakes and Di2 were "must have"

I still use my old bike as a spare and as a commuter, it is still a good bike, but the quality of brakes, wet and dry is very noticeable
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Chrace




Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:
Again, you're extrapolating. How much of the race is a 33% descent - 1%, 2% ? You are quoting an insignificant part.

On the contrary, I am quoting the most significant part. 99% of the route does not matter if I crash on 1%.

"I know it's a 20 mph school zone but I will still drive 60 mph since 99% of the time nothing will happen."

Your generalization is badly applied.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:
@Jorgan - 5 days a week, all weathers - how many brake/rim failures have you had ? None I would guess, yet you claim the disc brake is a necessity ? Necessary for what exactly ? To stop a failure which has never actually happened ?

Complain about the 00.01% or the 99% numbers but you have absolutely zero stats other than your experience which you again, extrapolate to be 'normality' as an every day event.

Its not bluster Jorgan - its calling out your logic for the BS it is as you have zero data to justify your claims. Not that you need to justify anything as its entirely a person choice.


Rather than digging-your-heels-in and being a blowhard, I suggest you read what everyone has written on this thread, before responding in a scatter-gun fashion.

I have not said discs are a necessity.
I have not mentioned rim or brake failures.
Nowhere have I used statistics: I called you out for using random percentages; your response above is frankly bizarre (and makes you look silly)
Correct, it is personal choice, and that's all anyone here has expressed - you're the one taking this thread down an unnecessary path by misquoting them. Why?

In fact nowhere has anyone said that disc brakes are a necessity; they have merely expressed an opinion and preference based on their experience and riding conditions. In fact, we have agreed with you that in your circumstances, they make little difference, and understand why you wouldn't bother changing. However, we prefer them for our respective uses.

This is not a mathematical problem - there is no one answer; no-one else here is using the term 'BS' in reference to another persons opinion, except you. It would just be more constructive if you openly agreed that everyone can have an opinion and a preference, and leave it at that. But you never do, because you're you.
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Last edited by Jorgan on Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:50 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Chrace




Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
It would just be more constructive if you openly agreed that everyone can have an opinion and a preference, and leave it at that.

What, am I not allowed to troll him anymore then?!? I was just getting started! Smile
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mattsurf




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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This debate is very amusing on Weight Weenies forum... apparently it is a global conspiracy by bike manufacturers and UCI to impose this heavy and unnecessary technology to bikes
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:
This debate is very amusing on Weight Weenies forum... apparently it is a global conspiracy by bike manufacturers and UCI to impose this heavy and unnecessary technology to bikes


Yes. Ironically though, many of us doubters end-up buying bikes with them and really liking them. To the point where future integration means I'd look for a TT bike with them Smile

As I've said before, in my experience (and that of many others) if you're using carbon rims, disc brakes are way better in the wet. I have carbon rims on both my 'best bikes' - but racing in the wet on my TT bike with rim brakes is pretty terrifying, and in races that happens 28.6% of the time Wink Laughing
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mattsurf




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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saw a recenty piece on GCN, apparently the the advent of disc brakes on TT bikes means that they can do clever things with the rims that will provide a net aero gain with disc brakes
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blindcider




Joined: 12 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:


@Blindcider - its not non-sensical. Most of the UK is flat, or flat enough such that the advantage of disc brakes is marginal to non-existent. Do explain how a disc brake is superior given most of the Uk is flat, most rides are done in dry conditions and not at high speed on mountain descents.


Like Jorgan I commute 4-5 days a week 48 weeks a year on my bike.

I live between Bristol and Bath which is well known for being flat as a pancake.

My experience of disc brakes is that since using them I am not having to replace rims every 12 months (based on mileage wear) and although its not always raining the ground is frequently wet or covered in crap which accumulates around the brakes, with disc brakes this is not a problem. British roads (particularly rural ones) often have very steep short descents with blind bends and sharp off camber turns and frequently junctions at the worst possible places - in anything approaching damp conditions I have far more confidence on my disc equipped bikes.

Discs aren't perfect, my one bike has an issue with pads warping and they can judder sometimes but for general British riding they are an absolute god send
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It rained on my ride home (60% chance in forecast). If you add to that the descents as steep as 7%, pothole coverage, which I'll estimate as 30% of the surface that cyclists use within a metre of the verge, and the added traffic obstacles (which I won't quantify), then there's a 97% chance that discs are the best braking option.

Tubs or clinchers?
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