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What is the most stupid advice on Facebook Ironman Journey
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Chrace




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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus wrote:
Well you all lasted a lot longer than I ever did. I think I managed about 48hrs.

Don't like the idea of people knowing who I am when I post. I enjoy posting self-righteous, opinionated bullsh1t and I certainly don't want it associating with the 'real' me Very Happy

At least until we look up your race number... Wink
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hammerer




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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:
tommy060289 wrote:
guy called Carl Jennings seems to kop a lot of flack from some corners. Is he your typical 'if you can complete your training plan it's not hard enough' never actually done an IM but knows it all or is the forum just full of some very salty people?


Carl is a "forum hero", fighting adversity to finally succeed in his IM journey... he has many tales, mainly based on learning from failure. People who just want to complete an IM for the first time, in under the cutoff time, love him, some people who are more experienced and are looking to compete, rather than just complete, get wound up my him.

Recently it has turned a bit nasty, gentle prodding has progressed to occasional abuse

Recently saw a comment from a "coach", which I felt was simply wrong


Wouldnt have been me. My advice is always solid and i try not to post much these days Wink Im also a proper coach where we grow a thick skin and can discuss with people our feedback intelligently, although when a bloke who has never done a tri and is basing his argumants on reading Frinkle I find it hard not to rip into them.

There is some misguided advice even from the so called respected coaches but generally the good coaches are open to debate as above. I do feel that a lot of the coaches on there are the old Ive done an ironman in 16hrs so am a coach, and now with the ability to do a 13hr online Ironman coaching course the lack of skills some modern "qualified" coaches possess is a little bit frightening especailly as on there apparently an Ironman coach is held in greater regard than people that have years of experience.
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hammerer




Joined: 19 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
There's a Carl here on TT, who has posted a lot; clueless Wink

You'd think there'd be less biff on FB, as people are generally posting publically as themselves, unlike here where you normally use an alias. But I guess social media does attract that kind of person, the Peacock.


yer that guy is clueless
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Gus




Joined: 07 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrace wrote:
Gus wrote:
Well you all lasted a lot longer than I ever did. I think I managed about 48hrs.

Don't like the idea of people knowing who I am when I post. I enjoy posting self-righteous, opinionated bullsh1t and I certainly don't want it associating with the 'real' me Very Happy

At least until we look up your race number... Wink


I know...

Which in reality is why I have never, ever, ever posted up anything opinionated or forthright, or any bullsh!t on here.

Ever.

Very Happy
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
mattsurf wrote:
tommy060289 wrote:
guy called Carl Jennings seems to kop a lot of flack from some corners. Is he your typical 'if you can complete your training plan it's not hard enough' never actually done an IM but knows it all or is the forum just full of some very salty people?


Carl is a "forum hero", fighting adversity to finally succeed in his IM journey... he has many tales, mainly based on learning from failure. People who just want to complete an IM for the first time, in under the cutoff time, love him, some people who are more experienced and are looking to compete, rather than just complete, get wound up my him.

Recently it has turned a bit nasty, gentle prodding has progressed to occasional abuse

Recently saw a comment from a "coach", which I felt was simply wrong


Wouldnt have been me. My advice is always solid and i try not to post much these days Wink Im also a proper coach where we grow a thick skin and can discuss with people our feedback intelligently, although when a bloke who has never done a tri and is basing his argumants on reading Frinkle I find it hard not to rip into them.

There is some misguided advice even from the so called respected coaches but generally the good coaches are open to debate as above. I do feel that a lot of the coaches on there are the old Ive done an ironman in 16hrs so am a coach, and now with the ability to do a 13hr online Ironman coaching course the lack of skills some modern "qualified" coaches possess is a little bit frightening especailly as on there apparently an Ironman coach is held in greater regard than people that have years of experience.


Not wishing to offend anyone, I have been careful not to be too specific just in case I am referring to anyone who also posts on Tritalk

Many of the coaches on IMJ are very good. Even at a professional level there is much discussion and differing views on the research, science and evidence of different approaches: personally I find it is useful to see these differences in opinion, and I also understandable when a coach is passionate about their own position and interpretation of research.

What is unacceptable is when a coach promotes an approach, which is probably counterproductive for many people, and misaligned with almost all of the research. Although you could say this about Brett Sutton’s approach, but he is an exception to the rule

I went on a long ride at the weekend with a person who is doing an IM with me in a month. Despite the temperature being over 30 degrees, I was surprised to see that he wasn’t eating. He had been told in IMJ by an expert nutritionist that to avoid bloating you shouldn’t eat for the first hour of the bike and during this period, you should only drink plain water, needless to say, that I spent much of the second half of the ride waiting for him to catch up
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
I was on it for about 3 months. Like most things, most members of the group are 'normal' but the only thing you really notice is the noise from the blowhards who actually have (in most cases) limited experience or knowledge.

Sorry to pick on a contributing member here, but last week they made a very IMJ statement, as if it was fact: "[i]bodyfat percentage is the biggest factor in triathlon performance"[/i].


I saw that comment. One very successful female Olympic medal holder and World TT champion has a very strong opinion on this point, where some top coaches push athletes into lifelong eating disorders and poor health in order to get their body fat percentage low
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hammerer




Joined: 19 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:
hammerer wrote:
mattsurf wrote:
tommy060289 wrote:
guy called Carl Jennings seems to kop a lot of flack from some corners. Is he your typical 'if you can complete your training plan it's not hard enough' never actually done an IM but knows it all or is the forum just full of some very salty people?


Carl is a "forum hero", fighting adversity to finally succeed in his IM journey... he has many tales, mainly based on learning from failure. People who just want to complete an IM for the first time, in under the cutoff time, love him, some people who are more experienced and are looking to compete, rather than just complete, get wound up my him.

Recently it has turned a bit nasty, gentle prodding has progressed to occasional abuse

Recently saw a comment from a "coach", which I felt was simply wrong


Wouldnt have been me. My advice is always solid and i try not to post much these days Wink Im also a proper coach where we grow a thick skin and can discuss with people our feedback intelligently, although when a bloke who has never done a tri and is basing his argumants on reading Frinkle I find it hard not to rip into them.

There is some misguided advice even from the so called respected coaches but generally the good coaches are open to debate as above. I do feel that a lot of the coaches on there are the old Ive done an ironman in 16hrs so am a coach, and now with the ability to do a 13hr online Ironman coaching course the lack of skills some modern "qualified" coaches possess is a little bit frightening especailly as on there apparently an Ironman coach is held in greater regard than people that have years of experience.


Not wishing to offend anyone, I have been careful not to be too specific just in case I am referring to anyone who also posts on Tritalk

Many of the coaches on IMJ are very good. Even at a professional level there is much discussion and differing views on the research, science and evidence of different approaches: personally I find it is useful to see these differences in opinion, and I also understandable when a coach is passionate about their own position and interpretation of research.

What is unacceptable is when a coach promotes an approach, which is probably counterproductive for many people, and misaligned with almost all of the research. Although you could say this about Brett Sutton’s approach, but he is an exception to the rule

I went on a long ride at the weekend with a person who is doing an IM with me in a month. Despite the temperature being over 30 degrees, I was surprised to see that he wasn’t eating. He had been told in IMJ by an expert nutritionist that to avoid bloating you shouldn’t eat for the first hour of the bike and during this period, you should only drink plain water, needless to say, that I spent much of the second half of the ride waiting for him to catch up


Wasn't me so don't worry 😂 On the Level 3 we are actively encouraged to challenge beliefs and the norm. If we didn't we'd still be spending all winter doing thousands of easy miles learning how to go slow 😉 also for me my approach differs based on the individual. I'm yet to meet two clones. I think there is a misconception that there is only one way but my philosophy changes. It's ever evolving.

Brett Sutton isn't as out there as you think. His approach is basically K.I.S.S. and the most successful athletes are those that repeat the same simple training day after day. Many performance coaches do the same as him as its all about consistency. Add some intensity, repetitions, distance or time each week, simple . Many of these lifestyle coaches can deliberately overcomplicate things to make it look like they have a golden bullet or secret sauce. It's not "sexy" to do the simple stuff well. I was once told if you need to take your swim session poolside, it's over complicated and I try to stick to that. It can still be varied, challenging and fun though. Even with the 8 year olds it's always keep it simple stupid and just keep them moving.

I remember that nutrition post well, I backed away as nutrition isn't what I do but also you have to just think it isn't worth debating with idiots 😂
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:


Wasn't me so don't worry 😂 On the Level 3 we are actively encouraged to challenge beliefs and the norm. If we didn't we'd still be spending all winter doing thousands of easy miles learning how to go slow 😉 also for me my approach differs based on the individual. I'm yet to meet two clones. I think there is a misconception that there is only one way but my philosophy changes. It's ever evolving.

Brett Sutton isn't as out there as you think. His approach is basically K.I.S.S. and the most successful athletes are those that repeat the same simple training day after day. Many performance coaches do the same as him as its all about consistency. Add some intensity, repetitions, distance or time each week, simple . Many of these lifestyle coaches can deliberately overcomplicate things to make it look like they have a golden bullet or secret sauce. It's not "sexy" to do the simple stuff well. I was once told if you need to take your swim session poolside, it's over complicated and I try to stick to that. It can still be varied, challenging and fun though. Even with the 8 year olds it's always keep it simple stupid and just keep them moving.

I remember that nutrition post well, I backed away as nutrition isn't what I do but also you have to just think it isn't worth debating with idiots 😂


As a former researcher, I understand the value in challenging the norm, and I would expect this from a good coach... however, to do this, in any field, you need to be a subject matter expert first. Unfortunately on IMJ, there are people who, challenge the norm without any understanding what they are doing.

Completely agree with you about different people and different approaches, this is why I am personally against off the shelf plans like Fink or Trainer Road.
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tin pot




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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
I was on it for about 3 months. Like most things, most members of the group are 'normal' but the only thing you really notice is the noise from the blowhards who actually have (in most cases) limited experience or knowledge.

Sorry to pick on a contributing member here, but last week they made a very IMJ statement, as if it was fact: "[i]bodyfat percentage is the biggest factor in triathlon performance"[/i].


I saw that comment. One very successful female Olympic medal holder and World TT champion has a very strong opinion on this point, where some top coaches push athletes into lifelong eating disorders and poor health in order to get their body fat percentage low


You can try to misunderstand statements as much as you want.

In terms of determining the results of a race, the most accurate determinant is (or at least was at the time I read the report) body fat percentage, as opposed to height, weight, BMI, marathon time, eye colour, bike brand, coach, belief in electrolytes preventing cramping, etc. Etc.

It would be funnier if posted on IMJ.


...Hold on a second...
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hammerer




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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
I was on it for about 3 months. Like most things, most members of the group are 'normal' but the only thing you really notice is the noise from the blowhards who actually have (in most cases) limited experience or knowledge.

Sorry to pick on a contributing member here, but last week they made a very IMJ statement, as if it was fact: "[i]bodyfat percentage is the biggest factor in triathlon performance"[/i].


I saw that comment. One very successful female Olympic medal holder and World TT champion has a very strong opinion on this point, where some top coaches push athletes into lifelong eating disorders and poor health in order to get their body fat percentage low


Holly Avil as well. Promising young athlete ruined. I know some others that had issues, one who posted on here very openly back in the day.
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hammerer




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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
mattsurf wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
I was on it for about 3 months. Like most things, most members of the group are 'normal' but the only thing you really notice is the noise from the blowhards who actually have (in most cases) limited experience or knowledge.

Sorry to pick on a contributing member here, but last week they made a very IMJ statement, as if it was fact: "[i]bodyfat percentage is the biggest factor in triathlon performance"[/i].


I saw that comment. One very successful female Olympic medal holder and World TT champion has a very strong opinion on this point, where some top coaches push athletes into lifelong eating disorders and poor health in order to get their body fat percentage low


You can try to misunderstand statements as much as you want.

In terms of determining the results of a race, the most accurate determinant is (or at least was at the time I read the report) body fat percentage, as opposed to height, weight, BMI, marathon time, eye colour, bike brand, coach, belief in electrolytes preventing cramping, etc. Etc.

It would be funnier if posted on IMJ.


...Hold on a second...


Have you got links to these papers
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jibberjim




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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
In terms of determining the results of a race, the most accurate determinant is (or at least was at the time I read the report) body fat percentage, as opposed to height, weight, BMI, marathon time, eye colour, bike brand, coach, belief in electrolytes preventing cramping, etc. Etc.


Did the report really use determinant? Since it's not a determinant, but it is not surprising that it's the factor with the highest correlation to success. Those are quite different things.
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mattsurf




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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:


You can try to misunderstand statements as much as you want.

In terms of determining the results of a race, the most accurate determinant is (or at least was at the time I read the report) body fat percentage, as opposed to height, weight, BMI, marathon time, eye colour, bike brand, coach, belief in electrolytes preventing cramping, etc. Etc.

It would be funnier if posted on IMJ.


...Hold on a second...


This is an interesting debate, clearly a lot of top coaches drive elite athletes to extremely low body fat percentage, so there probably is research to show that it does benefit performance, however, there is very strong evidence that extreme diets aimed at reducing body fat can have long term physical and psycological implications.

I can't remember where I read it, but it went something like this "when you go to an IM triathlon and see toned muscle bound bodies.... those are the spectators, most good AG triathletes are supremely fit, but carry a little extra weight which can be helpful for a Long Distance Athlete" I am now at risk of making IMJ type comments and apologize in advance if this is the case
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
mattsurf wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
I was on it for about 3 months. Like most things, most members of the group are 'normal' but the only thing you really notice is the noise from the blowhards who actually have (in most cases) limited experience or knowledge.

Sorry to pick on a contributing member here, but last week they made a very IMJ statement, as if it was fact: "[i]bodyfat percentage is the biggest factor in triathlon performance"[/i].


I saw that comment. One very successful female Olympic medal holder and World TT champion has a very strong opinion on this point, where some top coaches push athletes into lifelong eating disorders and poor health in order to get their body fat percentage low


You can try to misunderstand statements as much as you want.

In terms of determining the results of a race, the most accurate determinant is (or at least was at the time I read the report) body fat percentage, as opposed to height, weight, BMI, marathon time, eye colour, bike brand, coach, belief in electrolytes preventing cramping, etc. Etc.

It would be funnier if posted on IMJ.


...Hold on a second...


there's a misunderstanding if ever there was one...

as Sloggers would say before before accusing people of being bullies, that's school boy error TP..
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even as an indicator of general health, bodyfat % is by no means the definitive gauge.
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