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Tour de France 2018
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Chrace




Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't think letting G win is part of the plan for Sky. I think Froome is earmarked, but if Sky can get another rider in front at this point it a) is cool for G to be in yellow, b) shows silly levels of dominance, and c) allows Froome not to do the compulsory post-race news meetings. He can then cruise to the bus and start recovering. Marginal gains.

At some point captain roles will switch and G will ride for Froome. I predict first 2 days in the Pyrenees.
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Buzz_




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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The interesting point comes if Froome has to attack G to get time back. G could easily stayed on the front of the group yesterday and just dragged them all up but he chose to jump. Then again, when Froome was on his way to bridging the gap he jumped again rather than wait. If the roles are reversed, will G try and follow or let Froome go?
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Chrace




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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Team Sky doesn't operate with individual choice.

Also note that when G went for it, Froome stayed behind and kept checking the other riders rather than following. Getting time back from a team mate is easy (order: back off 1:45), but getting time back from another team is a different matter. It isn't G that Froome is watching, but he's probably very happy for him.
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SGreg




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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are probably right BUT...

If I was Froome I would not be happy winning the tour because the team said I should. He knows how the opposite feels. I think Froome will take time of G legitimately or not at all.

it's interesting though as G has spent a lot of time on the TT so Froome doesn't have that up his sleeve. And they both have to be aware of just how good TD is on a TT.

Can't wait for the ADH today Cool

Seems very few mountain stages this year? Is it about normal or was I just spoilt with the Giro being nearly all mountain?
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGreg wrote:
Seems very few mountain stages this year? Is it about normal or was I just spoilt with the Giro being nearly all mountain?

I think it is partly that the Giro and Vuelta are comparatively more mountainous that the Tour in most years.

That said, the nature of the mountain stages this year, being shorter and full of climbing, is really taking its toll. Cav and Kittel timed out yesterday. Greipel, Groenewegen and Gaviria abandoning today. It's carnage behind the GC contenders.
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Chrace




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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGreg wrote:
If I was Froome I would not be happy winning the tour because the team said I should.

Team Sky doesn't operate with individual choice. Smile

I suspect this was what happened with Wiggo. He was probably welcome to stay but since they had a new "best shot" at podiums it was Sky way or high way.

I see Sky as a machine geared (pun) solely towards podium results and, like it or not, they've taken out some/a lot of the fun by doing so. Like Formula 1 on two wheels.
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stenard




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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrace wrote:
SGreg wrote:
If I was Froome I would not be happy winning the tour because the team said I should.

Team Sky doesn't operate with individual choice. Smile

I suspect this was what happened with Wiggo. He was probably welcome to stay but since they had a new "best shot" at podiums it was Sky way or high way.

I see Sky as a machine geared (pun) solely towards podium results and, like it or not, they've taken out some/a lot of the fun by doing so. Like Formula 1 on two wheels.

I don't see that personally. They have that reputation, but as has been stated on various podcasts and ITV's coverage, throughout the ages there has always been a dominant team that has controlled things.

If anything, sky have been much more exciting in the ways they have won. Wiggo was dull - he could climb defensively and then excel in the TT. Froome has won on climbs, TT's, attacking descents, summit finishes, solo breakaways. They have strength in depth, and that's a money thing, but how they actually go about winning varies massively race to race, year to year. They've got less predictable as they've matured as a team.
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Whisk




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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Froome (and anyone else) is going to need to put a load of time into Dumoulin before the TT or he'll definitely lose the race on the penultimate day.

G's looking pretty good so far. It would be a brave DS who orders him to cede time to Froome with Dumoulin so close.
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SGreg




Joined: 30 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrace wrote:
SGreg wrote:
If I was Froome I would not be happy winning the tour because the team said I should.

Team Sky doesn't operate with individual choice. Smile



I said you are probably right...I just like to pretend you are not!

And it didn't look too much like G was under orders as he sprinted for the finish today!

Still, plenty of time to put a leash on him.


And as Stenard has said The Sky train is boring but it always takes a special moment of madness to win the tour the sky train just controls most of the race to allow that to happen. But there is normally that one move that shakes the race the up and that is normally a personal effort from Froome. not just a monotonous train to the summit.

Anyone who watched the Giro this year knows Sky is capable of true Madness!
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Whisk




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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The green jersey competition looks like a bit of a formality now that most of the top sprinters are out - Sagan has a 200 point cushion Shocked

I can't help thinking that Cav's days at the top are over. He had a bit of a renaissance in 2016 when he first moved to Dimension Data and won a few stages at the Tour and finished 2nd in the worlds, but he's looked a long way off that form since then Crying or Very sad
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whisk wrote:
The green jersey competition looks like a bit of a formality now that most of the top sprinters are out - Sagan has a 200 point cushion Shocked

I can't help thinking that Cav's days at the top are over. He had a bit of a renaissance in 2016 when he first moved to Dimension Data and won a few stages at the Tour and finished 2nd in the worlds, but he's looked a long way off that form since then Crying or Very sad


he's a had a couple of crashes though, so not a consistent run in to gain form...
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PhilleusPhogg




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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whisk wrote:
Froome (and anyone else) is going to need to put a load of time into Dumoulin before the TT or he'll definitely lose the race on the penultimate day.

G's looking pretty good so far. It would be a brave DS who orders him to cede time to Froome with Dumoulin so close.


Hit the nail on the head here. The 11s Froome currently has on Dumoulin is not enough, so as things stand, Thomas is their best chance.

I think the talk of Froome being the leader is more about Froome still having a free reign to attack and try to put time into Dumoulin. Ordinarily if you have someone a minute clear in yellow, there's no way Froome's allowed to do this.

The current situation actually is perfect for G. He just needs to follow Dumoulin and keep that gap to the ITT, and assuming Dumoulin is still trying to win the thing, he can quite rightly sit on Dumoulin's wheel as Tom chases any Froome attack down. Be interesting if TD didn't bother chasing though and left it to G ...

I think what's still quite exciting compared to other years is how TD and Froome back up in the last week after the Giro, and the fact Thomas is never far away from a silly crash (or bad day at the office)
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He said he literally rode over the back wheel of nibbles when he went down yesterday! Maybe (just whisper it), just maybe he's having a run of luck?!

I haven't looked at the TT. What's the anticipated range that TD is likely to gain on it?
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JaRok2300




Joined: 01 May 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's a had a couple of crashes though, so not a consistent run in to gain form...[/quote]

I think the crashes are a symptom of his form. Now he no longer has the legs to outsprint rivals (as he did at his peak) he's taking more risks and getting involved in more argy bargy which is resulting in the crashes.

One of my favourite clips is the year Wiggins led the train onto the Champs Elysees and there's that moving side-on camera shot of Cav just riding away from everyone. One of the few times where you really get an impression of the speed.
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilleusPhogg wrote:
Whisk wrote:
Froome (and anyone else) is going to need to put a load of time into Dumoulin before the TT or he'll definitely lose the race on the penultimate day.

G's looking pretty good so far. It would be a brave DS who orders him to cede time to Froome with Dumoulin so close.


Hit the nail on the head here. The 11s Froome currently has on Dumoulin is not enough, so as things stand, Thomas is their best chance.

It's not really that far off is it, with so much more racing to go before the ITT. CF and TD are much closer in TTing ability at the end of a three week grand tour, as shown by the Giro when TD only put 21s into CF, and that was with CF knowing he still had to execute their plan for the epic stage 19.

That said, I'd love G to keep plugging away and hold it all together. Such a nice guy, but I do wonder if that fact is what goes against him. They know he wont kick off.
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