Tri Talk HomepageTri Talk EventsTri Talk ForumsBlogsTri Talk TrainingTri TradeTriPlayerWikiTeam Tri Talk
Has GCN lost it?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TriTalk.co.uk Forum Index -> Gear
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 587
Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:24 pm    Post subject: Has GCN lost it? Reply with quote

GCN seems to have gone completely crazy over the new Cannondale Systemsix. While I am sure that it is fantastic bike GCN make some claims that I simply cannot accept:

"At 60km on a 5% gradient the Systemsix requires 200W, 109W less than a non aero road bike"

"On the flat at 30kph the Connondale Systemsix requires 10% less power than an equivalent road bike"

Not only do I have an issue with the claims, however, the fact that they conducted this so called test of comparing an aero road bike to a non aero road bike, without actually using another bike in the test.

If the claims are as described, the Cannondale Systemsix would be significantly faster than my TT bike with disc rear wheel. In fact if the claims are true, the Systemsix is much quicker than the Cannondale's own Slice TT bike

I know that GCN makes their revenue through advertising and product placement, someone has to pay, as consumers, this is the price we pay if we want free content.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chrace




Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 2816
Location: Eating a Yorkie

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the fastest UCI-legal road bike in the world

Dammit. Now I need to go sell my brand new Venge Vias.

Oh hang on, wasn't that the Trek Madone i needed instead? Or the new Giant Propel which has publicly challenged the Venge for the title? Or the Scott Foil which continually seem to be the fastest in all reviews (and, strangely, rarely tested against the above)?

Wha-evar.
_________________
Where the mind goes the body follows.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whisk




Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 8639
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrace wrote:
Quote:
the fastest UCI-legal road bike in the world

Dammit. Now I need to go sell my brand new Venge Vias.

Oh hang on, wasn't that the Trek Madone i needed instead? Or the new Giant Propel which has publicly challenged the Venge for the title? Or the Scott Foil which continually seem to be the fastest in all reviews (and, strangely, rarely tested against the above)?

Wha-evar.


Dude, your "new" Venge is so last year - the latest Venge was launched this week and is more aero than your "old" one, as well as being significantly lighter Wink
_________________
2016: Just riding my bike....
Hot Chillee ride captain (sponsored by Specialized, Sigma Sports, Wattbike, Le Marq, Wahoo, BOA, Sportique, Pro-Cycle Insurance, Maserati)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1636
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bet neither can stand up to my 8 year old Spesh Allez triple, complete with only 25% of the gears actually working at the moment! Now that's power, precision and aero!!! Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 17608
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely you just buy a red bike, and not worry about the details?
_________________
26 Years since it all began....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 587
Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Surely you just buy a red bike, and not worry about the details?


Both of mine are blue, does that mean I have to change them
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FatPom




Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 5288
Location: My happy place

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haven't watched 'regular' GCN for ages. We do watch Emma's cooking stuff though Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BigFoz




Joined: 25 Jun 2004
Posts: 1892
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bike itself may be 10% more aero, but the rider is about 80%+ of the total drag. So that's now down to a 1-2% improvement overall. Worth having? If you're within 1-2% of the sharp end, yes, otherwise, nope.
_________________
Not so much a six pack as a barrel!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 587
Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigFoz wrote:
The bike itself may be 10% more aero, but the rider is about 80%+ of the total drag. So that's now down to a 1-2% improvement overall. Worth having? If you're within 1-2% of the sharp end, yes, otherwise, nope.


Yes, but GCN was quoting 20W benefit at 30kph, which is 10% total reduction, as you say bike is only 20% of drag, so to get a 10% overall reduction would require 50% reduction in bike drag
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GrahamO




Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 10139
Location: United Arab Emirates or an airport

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Surely you just buy a red bike, and not worry about the details?


Such choices are normally pretty black or white so I have a black bike and a white bike Wink
_________________
Arguing with engineers is like wrestling in mud with a pig - after a while you realise they like it
newMan : I don't know why you think you can address me like that! Don't ever reply directly to any of my posts again please.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tuckandgo




Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 421

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: Has GCN lost it? Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:
GCN seems to have gone completely crazy over the new Cannondale Systemsix. While I am sure that it is fantastic bike GCN make some claims that I simply cannot accept:

"At 60km on a 5% gradient the Systemsix requires 200W, 109W less than a non aero road bike"

"On the flat at 30kph the Connondale Systemsix requires 10% less power than an equivalent road bike"

Not only do I have an issue with the claims, however, the fact that they conducted this so called test of comparing an aero road bike to a non aero road bike, without actually using another bike in the test.

If the claims are as described, the Cannondale Systemsix would be significantly faster than my TT bike with disc rear wheel. In fact if the claims are true, the Systemsix is much quicker than the Cannondale's own Slice TT bike

I know that GCN makes their revenue through advertising and product placement, someone has to pay, as consumers, this is the price we pay if we want free content.


The numbers are Cannondale's, not GCN's. They must be on a generic press release as I have seen them on lots of other reports of the bikes.

(however that doesn't mean GCN hasn't lost it Smile )
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 587
Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: Has GCN lost it? Reply with quote

tuckandgo wrote:
mattsurf wrote:
GCN seems to have gone completely crazy over the new Cannondale Systemsix. While I am sure that it is fantastic bike GCN make some claims that I simply cannot accept:

"At 60km on a 5% gradient the Systemsix requires 200W, 109W less than a non aero road bike"

"On the flat at 30kph the Connondale Systemsix requires 10% less power than an equivalent road bike"

Not only do I have an issue with the claims, however, the fact that they conducted this so called test of comparing an aero road bike to a non aero road bike, without actually using another bike in the test.

If the claims are as described, the Cannondale Systemsix would be significantly faster than my TT bike with disc rear wheel. In fact if the claims are true, the Systemsix is much quicker than the Cannondale's own Slice TT bike

I know that GCN makes their revenue through advertising and product placement, someone has to pay, as consumers, this is the price we pay if we want free content.


The numbers are Cannondale's, not GCN's. They must be on a generic press release as I have seen them on lots of other reports of the bikes.

(however that doesn't mean GCN hasn't lost it Smile )


There must be some very creative analytics behind this, as the numbers don't seem realistic in the real world.

Lets think about this for a second. Lets assume that 80% of drag is generated by the rider, not this bike.

Now assume that at 34kph I am pushing out 200W. About 35W is drivetrain loss, and aerodrag is 165W, of which 70% is rider (with a pretty low cda), which is 115W. This means that aerodrag from bike is 50W

According to Cannondale, the System 6 reduces total power output by 10% at 30 kph, so around 20W, therefore the Cannondale System 6 apparently only required 30W (50W from above - 20W claimed reduction). Therefore the bike is 40% more aero than a normal road bike.... and we haven't even considered that one of the biggest items of drag are the wheels, which would be the same on both bikes.

I am really sorry, but this all smacks of complete bulls**t.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 587
Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is becoming a rant.... however, from Road CC test

"What I can tell you is that, not surprisingly, the SystemSix’s geometry allows you to ride in an aero position, and seeing as you make a far larger contribution to overall drag than your bike, that makes a big difference."

aaaahhhhhhhh

what complete and utter rubbish: I can set my 2000 Specialized in an almost identical position to my 2017 Canyon, I can ride it in exactly the same aero position, what can Cannondale have done with the geometry that the rider to ride in a more aero position than other bikes, have Cannondale discovered some magical new riding position that allows a rider to be more aero, without the use of aerobars?

These are more claims:
"When descending, the differences become quite marked. To stay in touch with a rider riding a 5 percent downhill gradient at 200w and 60.6kph on the SystemSix, you’d need to be putting out 309w on the Evo."

if that is the case, how come I cycle down a 3% gradient on my 2000 specialized at 60kph at 250W

I would love to see real world proof of these claims
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chrace




Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 2816
Location: Eating a Yorkie

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy now matt, your heartrate is climbing. Wink
_________________
Where the mind goes the body follows.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 587
Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrace wrote:
Easy now matt, your heartrate is climbing. Wink


It's OK now, feeling better after my rant. Off to buy a System 6 to replace all of my bikes, then I can set off achieving KOMs on all of the local Strava Segments
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TriTalk.co.uk Forum Index -> Gear All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1
  Share
 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum





Home | About TT | Privacy Policy | Terms and Conditions | Advertising | Contact TT
Copyright ©2003-2015 TriTalk®.co.uk. All rights reserved.