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Cotswold 113 - #HalfIronWAR
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Buzz_




Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 446

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
So, yes it's only January, but does do guys have any aspirations for this event? AG win, sub 4:30, sub 5, sub 6, a finish? Smile

I thought we all just wanted to beat you?

So sub 5:00:16?
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Poet.




Joined: 06 Aug 2013
Posts: 390

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
So, yes it's only January, but does do guys have any aspirations for this event? AG win, sub 4:30, sub 5, sub 6, a finish? Smile


Why is the swim "slow" ?

Does that include some of the run to T1?
Based on your pool times, I'd expect you to be swimming 28:xx

Bike is relatively flat with no headwind, yes?
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Poet.




Joined: 06 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buzz_ wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
So, yes it's only January, but does do guys have any aspirations for this event? AG win, sub 4:30, sub 5, sub 6, a finish? Smile

I thought we all just wanted to beat you?

So sub 5:00:16?


He's gone quicker than that...

Me?

Swim < 1:35/100m (I'm about 5s per 100m slower over half and full than over 400m, and have cranked out a sub-6 400TT recently)
T1 < 00:03:00
Bike @ 80-85% of FTP (general ceiling limit of Half Ironman, though I used to ride them at 36-38km/h, with no power meter)
T2 < 00:02:00
Run @ 4:16/km (prior seasons half marathon to HIM run drop off is 7%, so going with that, based on predicting a standalone half using Jack Daniels VDOT formula, I'd like to be running this at < 4:10/km, but don't know if I can!)


So...

Swim: 30:05
T1: 00:03
Bike: 02:26
T2: 00:02
Run: 01:30
Total: 04:32

But that seems far too fast!
I thought (without the science) that I could do under 5 hours. And beat Jorgan.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't put beating me as your goal anyone, you never know what kind of day I'll have; not to mention that you should probably be in front of an old guy like me anyway Wink

Only once have I finished over 5h, and that was with a 1km uphill run into T1, and a hilly 14 mile run (Immortal Half). That was 5:03, and my next slowest is 4:47 iirc (first HIM age 34). Anyway, with 45 years on the clock, I have to be realistic about 'progress' versus what I could do 10 years ago before kids. Last 3 years on the longer 113 course were 4:38/4:38/4:44, with last year being in a 'year off' from taking it seriously.

So if I could PB the course, it would be defying father time!
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Last edited by Jorgan on Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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Poet.




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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By "longer" 113 course, you mean the 89.3km bike course, instead of the 82.8km one?

What is with the swim times, though?
They have to include to time to T1?

I think you're doing yourself a dis-service, there, Jorgan.

I did 4:49 for my first half, back in 2008.

Hmm...seem to recall some 50+ guy (Graham?) from COLTs doing a sub-10 at Outlaw when I was dying on the run.
I also cycle with 50+ folks who are rapid on the bike.
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Jorgan




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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poet. wrote:
By "longer" 113 course, you mean the 89.3km bike course, instead of the 82.8km one?

What is with the swim times, though?
They have to include to time to T1?


Yes, longer bike course. The swim varies slightly each year, like any OW event. I don't think it's ever been long though! In 2017 I did 27:59, and it was a touch under 1800m iirc. Last year I had a bit of a 'sh1t' swim and did 31:*. I've noticed I'm struggling this past year to maintain my swimming, maybe the slow decline is starting.

Poet. wrote:
...seem to recall some 50+ guy (Graham?) from COLTs doing a sub-10 at Outlaw when I was dying on the run.
I also cycle with 50+ folks who are rapid on the bike.


Graham Brookhouse was an Olympic Pentathlete FFS, you can't compare him to your average 50+ triathlete Laughing There are plenty of swift cyclists over 50, but what about their swimming & running? Just because some KQ guys do 9:20 aged 50+, doesn't mean it's normal. In fact it's 'not normal'.
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Poet.




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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Graham Brookhouse was an Olympic Pentathlete FFS, you can't compare him to your average 50+ triathlete Laughing


I did not know that!!! I just know I struggled to keep up with him as he went past on the run, noted his number, then check his results (sub-10 and 50+ at the time)
I did think it was pretty good!

Jorgan wrote:
There are plenty of swift cyclists over 50, but what about their swimming & running? Just because some KQ guys do 9:20 aged 50+, doesn't mean it's normal. In fact it's 'not normal'.


You bit, Must be the old age Wink
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poet. wrote:
What is with the swim times, though?
They have to include to time to T1?

I take it you think for some reason it's a slow swim?
That's the complete opposite of all my experiences. I've always swum way faster at this race than any other.

And transition is small. I didn't used to flying mount/dismount, and was low 2's in T1 and under 90s in T2. Even the very first time I did it in 2014, when I sat down in T1 and put bike shorts over my tri shorts, I was still under 3mins.

The bike course isn't quite as fast as you'd imagine however. The roads aren't great, so higher crr
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Poet.




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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I do.
I know there is no such thing as a "slow" swim, but it just strikes me that there aren't that many people under 30 minutes?

Oh, cheers for the update on the roads.
My TT courses up here (J2/9) are awful, so will see what I can do on that in the open in March to compare.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poet. wrote:
Yeah, I do.
I know there is no such thing as a "slow" swim, but it just strikes me that there aren't that many people under 30 minutes?

Oh, cheers for the update on the roads.
My TT courses up here (J2/9) are awful, so will see what I can do on that in the open in March to compare.


There are also a fair number of tight/slow turns too, which do take the edge of your progress, unlike TT courses. You can't compare the 113 course to a TT course (not once you get off the Spine Road anyway).

Yes, I bit on the age thing, I always do. At the end of the day, once you look outside the Triathlon bubble, I guess I am very fit for someone of my age with two young kids.
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stenard




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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poet. wrote:
Yeah, I do.
I know there is no such thing as a "slow" swim, but it just strikes me that there aren't that many people under 30 minutes?

I swam 29 flat there in June 17, and have never been under 30 anywhere else. And my swimming was way better this year in terms of pool and lake times (best races in '18 were 31:00 in Mallorca, 30.30 in Bahrain). It's the fastest swim course I've ever done, by a long long way (combination of water clarity so less sighting needed, and the fact it's usually a bit short as Jorgan suggested).
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

June 17 was also my best swim there (27:59)
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Wheezy




Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 1881
Location: Sub 3 (elect)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never gone sub 5. I could give you a long list of excuses as to why not, but hopefully will get there this time. Wouldnt like to nail any splits down yet, but a sub 1:40 run would be nice. Cool
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graeme4130




Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Yates, who won our race once in the first couple of years, and has regularly been on or near the podium, is going to be 51 when he races this year, and I think he did circa 4:10 on the full length 113 course a couple of years ago.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

graeme4130 wrote:
Steve Yates, who won our race once in the first couple of years, and has regularly been on or near the podium, is going to be 51 when he races this year, and I think he did circa 4:10 on the full length 113 course a couple of years ago.


When I see Steve's name now, I can't help but associate it with his various antics in the 226! He's certainly a beast though, and an engaging chap.
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