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Buzz_




Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 386

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

10 hours training time is a lot more than 10 hours by the time you factor in pre and post workout faffing. Sometimes wonder if that is what people mean when they say they spend 10 hours a week, or they forget that bit when they say they have 10 hours available to train.
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FatPom




Joined: 26 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buzz_ wrote:
10 hours training time is a lot more than 10 hours by the time you factor in pre and post workout faffing. Sometimes wonder if that is what people mean when they say they spend 10 hours a week, or they forget that bit when they say they have 10 hours available to train.


I only log the actual activity hours and if it's a group ride, I don't count the coffee stops. If I included the faffing, I'd be hitting 14hrs I reckon!
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 589
Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buzz_ wrote:
10 hours training time is a lot more than 10 hours by the time you factor in pre and post workout faffing. Sometimes wonder if that is what people mean when they say they spend 10 hours a week, or they forget that bit when they say they have 10 hours available to train.


I only record activity time, definitely not faffing time.
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Wheezy




Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 1782
Location: Sub 3 (elect)

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PCP wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
Poet. wrote:

Was on 7:30 last week, did 13hrs last week and it rocketed up to 7:45.


Yeah, but those 26kph group rides barely count for triathletes Wink As for logging 'Flow Yoga' in you Strava hours (Carlito ex of this parish) Laughing

When I logged my training manually, I just counted my swims as 1h, as that's how long I was in the pool. Now I upload from my Garmin, it's 40-45min, so I'm automatically down 45 min per week over historical volumes.


You should change the time on your swims to time spent in pool.
If your threshold pace is 1:40's and you do 30 x 100 off 2 mins then log 1 hour. If you leave it at just the actual swim time then TP will think you have done a 50 minute threshold swim and it will skew your CTL.


On my ride this morning I had a coffee stop and I normally leave my Garmin running because when the ride is pulled into Strava it cuts out the stationary time, but when itís been pulled into TP itís the total time. Looks like I will need to remember to stop the Garmin in future.
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tin pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FatPom wrote:
Poet. wrote:
FatPom wrote:
I'm quite amazed how much effort it takes to average a genuine 10hr training week. You only need a couple of blown out weekend to skew it. I wonder if people over estimate their hours?


Works both ways, though.
Miss that century ride, average goes down massively.
Add in a century ride, with a 30km run, average jumps up massively.

Over the past 23 weeks, I've been slowly building to 8hrs per week.
Was on 7:30 last week, did 13hrs last week and it rocketed up to 7:45.


yeah agree. it's just that if you had stopped me at any given week in the season and asked how much I was averaging, I would have said 'easily 10' but it's only when you count all the weeks and average it that the picture is clear.


Indeed - my estimate was almost fifty percent higher than my actual average in season training.
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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 1890
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wheezy wrote:
PCP wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
Poet. wrote:

Was on 7:30 last week, did 13hrs last week and it rocketed up to 7:45.


Yeah, but those 26kph group rides barely count for triathletes Wink As for logging 'Flow Yoga' in you Strava hours (Carlito ex of this parish) Laughing

When I logged my training manually, I just counted my swims as 1h, as that's how long I was in the pool. Now I upload from my Garmin, it's 40-45min, so I'm automatically down 45 min per week over historical volumes.


You should change the time on your swims to time spent in pool.
If your threshold pace is 1:40's and you do 30 x 100 off 2 mins then log 1 hour. If you leave it at just the actual swim time then TP will think you have done a 50 minute threshold swim and it will skew your CTL.


On my ride this morning I had a coffee stop and I normally leave my Garmin running because when the ride is pulled into Strava it cuts out the stationary time, but when itís been pulled into TP itís the total time. Looks like I will need to remember to stop the Garmin in future.


Autopause is your friend.
Cuts out all the time sat at traffic lights too (if like me you have to ride for 30 mins to get to clear open roads). Set it to 0mph or even <3mph if you are really fussy about slowing down for lights etc.
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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 1890
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I managed an easy turbo and very easy run yesterday. Throat still feels rough today so maybe just a very easy turbo today.

I'm planning on keeping all my runs in Z1 for a few weeks until some fitness returns. It isn't easy as it isn't flat where I live but it is nice finishing a run feeling like you could go out again, rather than being battered.

Question - will this help me increase mileage faster than running harder, or are miles still miles?
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Roscoemck




Joined: 10 Aug 2016
Posts: 442
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Roscoemck wrote:
Woke up yesterday feeling as if I'm coming down wit something, same this morning. There's a real nasty virus going round work just now that's flooring people for weeks. Fingers crossed it's not that!


Square sausage in a roll & an Irn Bru will see you right. Food of championeees.


That'll help the ever expanding belly! Very Happy
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 17616
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PCP wrote:
You should change the time on your swims to time spent in pool.
If your threshold pace is 1:40's and you do 30 x 100 off 2 mins then log 1 hour. If you leave it at just the actual swim time then TP will think you have done a 50 minute threshold swim and it will skew your CTL.


I'm not actively using TP, but how would you adjust it, manually? How do you get it to recognise the Rest Intervals?

I guess the 'rub' here, is that you want to monitor your interval times, but to do so, you isolate the activity file to just swim time, as you pointed out. But if you keep the watch running, it just thinks you're swimming at a much slower pace; does TP have the ability to detect the portions of the exercise file where you're swimming faster, and then resting?
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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 1890
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
PCP wrote:
You should change the time on your swims to time spent in pool.
If your threshold pace is 1:40's and you do 30 x 100 off 2 mins then log 1 hour. If you leave it at just the actual swim time then TP will think you have done a 50 minute threshold swim and it will skew your CTL.


I'm not actively using TP, but how would you adjust it, manually? How do you get it to recognise the Rest Intervals?

I guess the 'rub' here, is that you want to monitor your interval times, but to do so, you isolate the activity file to just swim time, as you pointed out. But if you keep the watch running, it just thinks you're swimming at a much slower pace; does TP have the ability to detect the portions of the exercise file where you're swimming faster, and then resting?


It depends on your watch. If you have a 920 or similar, you press start when you start swimming then only press STOP when you finish the session.
At the end of each rep you press LAP so the watch knows what is swim time and what is rest. It will then give you a total time and a total swim time.

When you upload to TP it will input the total distance and the total SWIM TIME. You then just amend the time to the total time in pool including rest.

The individual laps/reps will be logged and you can check pace, length pace, stroke rate etc to compare efforts.

Go to settings to input swim threshold pace. You can do this off mobile app or desktop.
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 589
Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PCP wrote:
Wheezy wrote:
PCP wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
Poet. wrote:

Was on 7:30 last week, did 13hrs last week and it rocketed up to 7:45.


Yeah, but those 26kph group rides barely count for triathletes Wink As for logging 'Flow Yoga' in you Strava hours (Carlito ex of this parish) Laughing

When I logged my training manually, I just counted my swims as 1h, as that's how long I was in the pool. Now I upload from my Garmin, it's 40-45min, so I'm automatically down 45 min per week over historical volumes.


You should change the time on your swims to time spent in pool.
If your threshold pace is 1:40's and you do 30 x 100 off 2 mins then log 1 hour. If you leave it at just the actual swim time then TP will think you have done a 50 minute threshold swim and it will skew your CTL.


On my ride this morning I had a coffee stop and I normally leave my Garmin running because when the ride is pulled into Strava it cuts out the stationary time, but when itís been pulled into TP itís the total time. Looks like I will need to remember to stop the Garmin in future.


Autopause is your friend.
Cuts out all the time sat at traffic lights too (if like me you have to ride for 30 mins to get to clear open roads). Set it to 0mph or even <3mph if you are really fussy about slowing down for lights etc.


I have a commute profile, with autopause set, as I go through a ton of lights through the city. However, Strava does recognise this, and when trying to bag a segment, it does include the time that the garmin was paused - it must be looking at the start time and finish time of a segment rather than using the Garmin unit to calculate the time
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Poet.




Joined: 06 Aug 2013
Posts: 280

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Yeah, but those 26kph group rides barely count for triathletes Wink


2k of climbing!
Ride was very similar to my Outlaw 2012 build up rides.
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1827

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PCP wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
PCP wrote:
You should change the time on your swims to time spent in pool.
If your threshold pace is 1:40's and you do 30 x 100 off 2 mins then log 1 hour. If you leave it at just the actual swim time then TP will think you have done a 50 minute threshold swim and it will skew your CTL.


I'm not actively using TP, but how would you adjust it, manually? How do you get it to recognise the Rest Intervals?

I guess the 'rub' here, is that you want to monitor your interval times, but to do so, you isolate the activity file to just swim time, as you pointed out. But if you keep the watch running, it just thinks you're swimming at a much slower pace; does TP have the ability to detect the portions of the exercise file where you're swimming faster, and then resting?


It depends on your watch. If you have a 920 or similar, you press start when you start swimming then only press STOP when you finish the session.
At the end of each rep you press LAP so the watch knows what is swim time and what is rest. It will then give you a total time and a total swim time.

When you upload to TP it will input the total distance and the total SWIM TIME. You then just amend the time to the total time in pool including rest.

The individual laps/reps will be logged and you can check pace, length pace, stroke rate etc to compare efforts.

Go to settings to input swim threshold pace. You can do this off mobile app or desktop.

Are you sure about this? That's not how bike power works. For exactly the reason that has been mentioned about autopause on the bike, you only want to include time you're actually moving. Coasting should be included but long stops at lights should not. TSS is a combination of intensity (to a power, squared on the bike) and duration. Your rest intervals are not training stress. They are rest. If you include the rest then you alter IF, and the extra time but altered IF doesn't have the same effect.

Training Peaks themselves are also clear you should not include rest which is why their system does what it does:
https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/calculating-swimming-tss-score/
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Last edited by stenard on Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1827

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:

I have a commute profile, with autopause set, as I go through a ton of lights through the city. However, Strava does recognise this, and when trying to bag a segment, it does include the time that the garmin was paused - it must be looking at the start time and finish time of a segment rather than using the Garmin unit to calculate the time

Strava quotes all activity durations by moving time. The only way to override that is if you select something to be a race, then it will quote the total activity time. So outside of a race activity it will eliminate any stops at lights automatically from the time it reports for the overall ride and the average speed, whether or not the Garmin is set to autopause on.

For segments however, they take the real world time at the start and end of a segment to work out segment duration. That's to stop someone bagging a KOM by hitting a segment hard for half of it, pausing for a long rest, then completing it.
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 589
Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
mattsurf wrote:

I have a commute profile, with autopause set, as I go through a ton of lights through the city. However, Strava does recognise this, and when trying to bag a segment, it does include the time that the garmin was paused - it must be looking at the start time and finish time of a segment rather than using the Garmin unit to calculate the time

Strava quotes all activity durations by moving time. The only way to override that is if you select something to be a race, then it will quote the total activity time. So outside of a race activity it will eliminate any stops at lights automatically from the time it reports for the overall ride and the average speed, whether or not the Garmin is set to autopause on.

For segments however, they take the real world time at the start and end of a segment to work out segment duration. That's to stop someone bagging a KOM by hitting a segment hard for half of it, pausing for a long rest, then completing it.


Thanks for the clarification, that is what I assumed was the case.
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