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Poet.




Joined: 06 Aug 2013
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jogged round a parkrun in 21:38 parkrun this morning...just gotto maintain that into the new year now...Im a bit fitter than I thought
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Tri'ing Swimmer




Joined: 15 Nov 2016
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats, well ahead of schedule! The sub 20 thread is surely waiting for you before Christmas!
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Tri'ing Swimmer




Joined: 15 Nov 2016
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Half M PB today in Cologne. So plan for a winter of building distances up to regular 40k a week. Nothing special at first just base building, then look to move towards a stand-alone marathon in the spring.

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Poet.




Joined: 06 Aug 2013
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So...did my second FTP test today.

Last time I performed one (3 weeks ago);
FTP: 213W
W/KG: 2.48
AveHR: 155bpm

Today:
FTP: 229W
W/KG: 2.72
AveHR: 159bpm

I now have a new threshold HR, which is slightly higher, which is good.
FTP has gone up 7.5%, W/KG gone up 9.7% :O
Part of that is definitely getting used to the mental test of it, too.

Forecasting out to Week 15 of 2019, numbers would be;
FTP: 353W
W/KG: 4.76

That's unrealistic (4.7W/KG is Cat1 standard), so will look to see what the improvement is in Week 46 of 2018 (I'm expecting it to sit between 3-4% of FTP)

Improvements in that ballpark would see forecasting out to Week 15 of 2019, numbers would be;
FTP: 282W
W/KG: 3.8 (Cat3 - which is where I'd like to see myself in April 2019)
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poet. wrote:

Forecasting out to Week 15 of 2019, numbers would be;
FTP: 353W
W/KG: 4.76

That's unrealistic (4.7W/KG is Cat1 standard)

Very Happy If only we could all just have linear progression with FTP growth!

Good work on the initial improvement. As you say, there's definitely an element of "learning to suffer" on a 20 minute test if that's what you did (altho I have actually moved away from them).
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Poet.




Joined: 06 Aug 2013
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:

Very Happy If only we could all just have linear progression with FTP growth!


Ha ha ha - I'm using Holt-Winters Seasonal Multiplicative Wink

stenard wrote:

Good work on the initial improvement. As you say, there's definitely an element of "learning to suffer" on a 20 minute test if that's what you did (altho I have actually moved away from them).


Cheers. I'm sceptical of this improvement. It is unrealistic.
I used the same equipment and bike and followed it after same session/periodisation etc.
Though my previous test, I hadn't tested, or even raced, for years.

What did you move to?
The 8 minute test?
Or the hour of truth?
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ once you've been back training properly for 12 months, you'll hit a plateau and find gains a lot harder. Enjoy it whilst it lasts Poet Very Happy
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Poet.




Joined: 06 Aug 2013
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
^^ once you've been back training properly for 12 months, you'll hit a plateau and find gains a lot harder. Enjoy it whilst it lasts Poet Very Happy


As long as that plateau is <5:20 for 180KM, I'd be happy Wink
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poet. wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
^^ once you've been back training properly for 12 months, you'll hit a plateau and find gains a lot harder. Enjoy it whilst it lasts Poet Very Happy


As long as that plateau is <5:20 for 180KM, I'd be happy Wink


Backed-up with a 3:20 marathon? Nice Very Happy
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Poet. wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
^^ once you've been back training properly for 12 months, you'll hit a plateau and find gains a lot harder. Enjoy it whilst it lasts Poet Very Happy


As long as that plateau is <5:20 for 180KM, I'd be happy Wink


Backed-up with a 3:20 marathon? Nice Very Happy

I did 5:18 and 3:25 as a first go, with the bike off under 170W, so definitely doable!
Poet. wrote:

What did you move to?
The 8 minute test?
Or the hour of truth?

The new TrainerRoad ramp test. Mainly as it is significantly less taxing "in-season", and allows you to test without entirely wiping yourself out.

For example, I'm planning to do another one on Friday, just to validate where I am at before flying to Ibiza for a middle distance 8 days later. I'd never consider doing a 20min test 8 days out from a race. Maybe that's just me ... fairly sure TRO did a hard effort 50TT the week prior to IM Wales, or something like that. That would seem a bit punchy to me during taper! But we're all different.

There are no doubt potential flaws with the testing protocol. After all, all tests are just methods to try and approximate threshold. But it at least shows relative gains/losses.

As posted on the sub11 thread I think, for swimming I do now actually just prefer to do a best effort 1500, rather than a CSS test. As I found after a couple of years that CSS test over-estimated my abilities. For middle distance at least, all the FTP type testing protocols have broadly aligned to what I can run well off (c80% of the calculated FTP). IM was a different story, where for whatever reason, I only rode 67% despite aiming for 72-73%.
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Poet.




Joined: 06 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers stenard - I was reading about that today.
I probably wont be FTP testing in season, but using the local bone shaker 10TT instead. JORGAN is being cheeky (grr!) I tried for three years to go sub10 then quit...

Forestman 2008 - massive failure. Less said about this the better.

Forestman 2009 11:01
Swim 1:13
Bike 5:54
Run 3:51

All times were a true reflection of my abilities at this time. Got 4th overall by a minute or two.
Run was a quite hilly trail run, so really pleased with the time and overall placing, but I wanted to see what itd translate to on a flat course..

Outlaw 2010 10:20
Swim 0:59
Bike 5:22
Run 3:53

Swim was short. Or I just got some good feet/lucky. I was doing 5:30 for 400m, so this was pretty good.
Bike included a toilet break. Smashed it too much to get time back.
Run was shocking.
I was running 3:40/km for the 10k legs in the early season duathlons, then running 3:45/km for the last bit. I was running low 17min stand-alone 5ks.
For my half, I ran a 1:24 at Bala (think its 20k?)

Outlaw 2011 10:20
Swim 1:02
Bike 5:26
Run 3:47

Swim wasnt as good as Id have liked.
Bike was fine, I went slower hoping my run would be better than the previous year.
I was running 5:05 miles, mid 17 for 5k and high 35s for 10k. Did an early season 30 mile trail race in 3:27 and Id ran under 4:00/km for a middle distance as my half. So was pretty happy with where my run was. But it wasnt to be...time for another crack.

Outlaw 2012 10:16
Swim 1:02
Bike 5:20
Run 3:48

I was swimming high 57s in the pool by this point. Never translated to OW.
Bike was exactly where I wanted it.
I ran a 5 minute mile this year, as well as some low 17 5ks and a few 36min 10ks. BUT...my half marathon time was only 85mins, so maybe neglected distance for speed in the hope speed would come through over 26.2 miles. It did not...moved focus to World Champs 2013 and then quit after that.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not even a 10:0* to your name? Amateur. Unfortunately I have three Frustrated
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Poet.




Joined: 06 Aug 2013
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Not even a 10:0* to your name? Amateur. Unfortunately I have three Frustrated


Very Happy Confused

Where were yours though Wink

Austria, Roth and ?
You did 10:28 at Outlaw, didn't you? Slower than my times Wink
(Did someone mention OutWar)

I did briefly mention Challenge Barcelona the other evening...we like it a lot over there and that's meant to be awesome for drafting, so my legs would be fresher on the run (what's a 5 minute bike penalty vs 20-30 minutes on the run?)
Seems to me that Outlaw is pretty slow, even for a "fast" course?

My placings were;
2010 6th in AG / 34th overall
2011 2nd in AG / 14th overall
2012 6th in AG / 21st overall

Previous TTers;
Carl James did a 10:05 at Outlaw in 2012, then backed it up with a 9:35 at Austria (can't recall if that was the same year, or the following one?)
Tom Van Rossum did 9:50 at Outlaw in 2012, he's now a Kona Qualifier.
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Tri'ing Swimmer




Joined: 15 Nov 2016
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like you have a lot of time there on the run to get sub 10? Confident youre not overbiking?
My 1/2M PB is 1:25, 10K 38 flat so youre a much better runner than me, but I run :40 in Oly, 1:27 in my 1/2 last year and 3:30 at Outlaw. Im a much weaker biker though and dont have access to power so might be Im saving too much back.
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Poet.




Joined: 06 Aug 2013
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TS:: I only have power on a WattBike, its just a measure. Same bike used. I use HR in racing. Or did. Ive been looking at some Assiomota pedals (whatever theyre called) but they cost more than two of my hastily purchased bikes 😉

Dunno about overbiking? Speed was flat throughout. Towards the end it obvs got harder, but never dark. Run was generally 1:40 for first half, then two hours for second half.

Those bikes at Outlaw were LONELY!!!

What did you bike?
You ran a 3:30 in the monsoon???
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