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Brexit in action?! Question re French Tris and licensing
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1779

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:58 pm    Post subject: Brexit in action?! Question re French Tris and licensing Reply with quote

The title is a bit tongue in cheek, as I think it's wider than that.

So, in the past triathlons in France have always required you to have a medical certificate and buy a day license, unless you were affiliated with an overseas Tri Federation. BTF was fine.

Ironman races in France always followed this rule, and their event pages said the following:
You must have a 2018 valid license from a national triathlon federation.

All the French pages for 2019 now say the following:
Quote:
If you have a triathlon license from France, Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Italy, Spain, Portugal , you will not need to buy a One-Day License. Donít forget to bring your ID and your Triathlon License at the registration desk.

If you have a triathlon license from another country that those quoted above, or if you donít have a triathlon license you will have to buy a One-Day License and bring a medical certificate at the registration desk. The medical certificate needs to allow you to do a triathlon in competition and must be less than one year old from the day of the race.

This is quite a change and very restrictive. Would anyone like FatBuddha know why there appears to be this change? I thought he had previously mentioned there was agreement about federation licensing at an ITU level?

I was just about to enter a French race, but adding another 16% of the cost for a license, when I'll already have bought a BTF one, is actually putting me off. I'm wondering if they'll have to relax the rule come the actual races next year? Especially with the 70.3 worlds in Nice, is this just a money making exercise by French Tri? They're going to have hundreds of overseas athletes coming, nearly all of whom are now going to have to buy a Ä45 day license and go through the faff of a medical certificate.

One Ä45 by itself it's much of a deal breaker, but given the attraction of the race I'm considering is the timing to allow me a chance to qualify for Nice, having to stump up nearly Ä100 over the year in French Tri day licenses, were I to qualify, just puts me off the goal of Nice almost entirely.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like a nice little earner to me
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Tigger




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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it cheaper to join the German Tri Federation and get a start pass?
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stenard




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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was wondering if you are able to just join other European federations?
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awildt




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's an insurance thing in France. Every single sporting event and every single sports licence in France requires a medical certificate - and don't forget the certificate has to say "in competition" if you are doing a race.

Given that France has a huge abundance of local races at a fraction of the cost of Ironman, 45Euros is not a lot of money. But if you insist on an Ironman then, well, that's your choice.

A normal annual licence in France is close to 150Euros for the year. But you don't pay for every training session with the club and you get great local events at reasonable entry fee. Why do you think the UK is now almost all commercially organised events with over inflated entry fees - because the federation does NOTHING for grassroots in the sport and only cares about lottery funded elites that can be televised.

Sorry, for the rant but I really miss the family orientated, but high level, competition in France. With a focus on getting everyone involved.

Be grateful you're not in the divisional racing in France - that required full ECGs etc, every 2 years.
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iwaters




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting the medical certificate can be hard. I was looking at something in this country that wanted one and my GP refused to do it even when I offered to pay. They directed me to a private GP surgery. £200 for a consultation
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jayski




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

awildt wrote:
It's an insurance thing in France. Every single sporting event and every single sports licence in France requires a medical certificate - and don't forget the certificate has to say "in competition" if you are doing a race.

Given that France has a huge abundance of local races at a fraction of the cost of Ironman, 45Euros is not a lot of money. But if you insist on an Ironman then, well, that's your choice.

A normal annual licence in France is close to 150Euros for the year. But you don't pay for every training session with the club and you get great local events at reasonable entry fee. Why do you think the UK is now almost all commercially organised events with over inflated entry fees - because the federation does NOTHING for grassroots in the sport and only cares about lottery funded elites that can be televised.

Sorry, for the rant but I really miss the family orientated, but high level, competition in France. With a focus on getting everyone involved.

Be grateful you're not in the divisional racing in France - that required full ECGs etc, every 2 years.


Totally agree. It is about time the BTF were held to account. Their funding will fall off a cliff when both Brownlees officially leave ITU racing and our Olympic medal prospects disappear.
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stenard




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

awildt wrote:
It's an insurance thing in France. Every single sporting event and every single sports licence in France requires a medical certificate - and don't forget the certificate has to say "in competition" if you are doing a race.

Given that France has a huge abundance of local races at a fraction of the cost of Ironman, 45Euros is not a lot of money. But if you insist on an Ironman then, well, that's your choice.

A normal annual licence in France is close to 150Euros for the year. But you don't pay for every training session with the club and you get great local events at reasonable entry fee. Why do you think the UK is now almost all commercially organised events with over inflated entry fees - because the federation does NOTHING for grassroots in the sport and only cares about lottery funded elites that can be televised.

Sorry, for the rant but I really miss the family orientated, but high level, competition in France. With a focus on getting everyone involved.

Be grateful you're not in the divisional racing in France - that required full ECGs etc, every 2 years.

Everything you say I understand. French Tri, and French Sport in general, are completely wrong in that a medical certificate achieves anything at all, but that's a different matter. The point here has nothing to do with the relevance/necessity, or not, of needing a medical certificate.

It's that up to and including 2018, at an ITU level, if anyone in the world had a license from their national federation, these rules didnt apply. Suddenly, that is down to 7 overseas federations. Why? What's so special about the countries I listed they'll still accept licenses from?

What's wrong with a British, Irish, Dutch, Danish, American, Canadian, and so on, license.

EDIT - I don't get your point about cost and relevance to Ironman? This is nothing to do with Ironman? Ironman France have even responded to me and told me this is an enforced change by French triathlon. So every single race in France has just gone up by Ä45 for any athlete not from the 7 countries I have listed. How much the event was to enter in the first place is irrelevant. If anything, it makes Ironman races more appealing. I'd more likely pay an extra Ä45 when I'm already paying $hit loads as it's a drop in the ocean, than if the race entry fee was minimal and then I get shafted for Ä45 for not being from Germany.
iwaters wrote:
Getting the medical certificate can be hard. I was looking at something in this country that wanted one and my GP refused to do it even when I offered to pay. They directed me to a private GP surgery. £200 for a consultation

Exactly. The concept doesnt exist in the UK. And quite understandably. How can a GP who's never met me before knowingly provide any kind of certification of ability to compete in anything without doing a full work up? That's why most charge a fortune, or just flat out refuse.

I've never had to worry in the past, as I've only done tri's in France and my BTF license has been enough, but most people I know who've run Paris marathon have just forged them.
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jayski wrote:
Totally agree. It is about time the BTF were held to account. Their funding will fall off a cliff when both Brownlees officially leave ITU racing and our Olympic medal prospects disappear.

Really? Maybe this is your point, but I don't see any benefit from my BTF membership other than eliminating my need to pay £5 race license fees for every event. Same as my EA membership.

It's just the British way. It's not exceptional to triathlon. Every sport I have ever been involved in, and paid NGB membership fees to, has been generally hands off. Triathlon. Golf. British American Football. Cricket. Football.

It's an operational choice. In the same way I chose a tri club that has a tiny annual membership, loads of free self-organised sessions, and then pay as you go coached sessions. Versus another club in my area that charges a monthly fee that's higher than my annual club membership, but includes all sessions for free. I'd prefer flexibility, rather than paying more and then feeling compelled to get my money's worth.

But the thread is getting off track now.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tigger wrote:
Is it cheaper to join the German Tri Federation and get a start pass?


I don't think that would be possible. When I lived there, I didn't even bother joining the DTU, as iirc you had to be affiliated to a club to join the DTU. Not sure that a non-German national living outside Germany would be permitted in any case! I would imagine other federations would operate in the same way regarding nationality & residency requirements.
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tuckandgo




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: Brexit in action?! Question re French Tris and licensing Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
The title is a bit tongue in cheek, as I think it's wider than that.

So, in the past triathlons in France have always required you to have a medical certificate and buy a day license, unless you were affiliated with an overseas Tri Federation. BTF was fine.

Ironman races in France always followed this rule, and their event pages said the following:
You must have a 2018 valid license from a national triathlon federation.

All the French pages for 2019 now say the following:
Quote:
If you have a triathlon license from France, Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Italy, Spain, Portugal , you will not need to buy a One-Day License. Donít forget to bring your ID and your Triathlon License at the registration desk.

If you have a triathlon license from another country that those quoted above, or if you donít have a triathlon license you will have to buy a One-Day License and bring a medical certificate at the registration desk. The medical certificate needs to allow you to do a triathlon in competition and must be less than one year old from the day of the race.

This is quite a change and very restrictive. Would anyone like FatBuddha know why there appears to be this change? I thought he had previously mentioned there was agreement about federation licensing at an ITU level?

I was just about to enter a French race, but adding another 16% of the cost for a license, when I'll already have bought a BTF one, is actually putting me off. I'm wondering if they'll have to relax the rule come the actual races next year? Especially with the 70.3 worlds in Nice, is this just a money making exercise by French Tri? They're going to have hundreds of overseas athletes coming, nearly all of whom are now going to have to buy a Ä45 day license and go through the faff of a medical certificate.

One Ä45 by itself it's much of a deal breaker, but given the attraction of the race I'm considering is the timing to allow me a chance to qualify for Nice, having to stump up nearly Ä100 over the year in French Tri day licenses, were I to qualify, just puts me off the goal of Nice almost entirely.


To stay on topic.

Do you know if this changes extends beyond Britain? If Britain being excluded is the only change then it is pretty obvious why it has happened.

The federation agreement thingy is irrelevant, it will be to do with insurance and what is considered acceptable.
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: Brexit in action?! Question re French Tris and licensing Reply with quote

tuckandgo wrote:

To stay on topic.

Do you know if this changes extends beyond Britain? If Britain being excluded is the only change then it is pretty obvious why it has happened.

The federation agreement thingy is irrelevant, it will be to do with insurance and what is considered acceptable.

Maybe my original post wasnt clear....

In the past, any national federation license of an ITU affiliated NGB (national governing body) was acceptable and eliminated the need for a French day license. The same as a French Tri license eliminates the need for a day license at a British event.

From 2019, there are only 7 overseas national federation licenses that will be accepted for events in France. It is much bigger than a UK issue. And hence the "tongue in cheek" comment in relation to my thread title.
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SGreg




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting a medical for IM Nice was pretty easy... Went into a tent, a lady shoved a finger up my ass, listened to my chest and took some notes out of my wallet!
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Buzz_




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
What's wrong with a British, Irish, Dutch, Danish, American, Canadian, and so on, license.


It's been covered on here before that BTF insurance is wholly inadequate if you end up in hospital as a result of a racing incident, maybe the same is true for these other countries?
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buzz_ wrote:
stenard wrote:
What's wrong with a British, Irish, Dutch, Danish, American, Canadian, and so on, license.


It's been covered on here before that BTF insurance is wholly inadequate if you end up in hospital as a result of a racing incident, maybe the same is true for these other countries?

What do you mean? For medical insurance purposes? I struggle to believe that any triathlon NGB membership would cover an individual for personal medical expenses anywhere in the world. I'm prepared to be proven wrong on this, but that's what travel insurance is for.
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