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Brexit in action?! Question re French Tris and licensing
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stenard




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buzz_ wrote:
stenard wrote:
Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
Maybe I'm the outlier in having previously looked through all the clauses associated with EHIC and determined there are way too many exclusions, loopholes, and requirements, that I would never want to rely on it. It somewhat annoys me that the NHS and other official bodies recommend it for travelling in Europe. In my opinion they should actually recommend getting proper travel insurance! Post-brexit I presume it disappears, so in that regard it should be less likely people get caught out. You can't influence whether you get taken to a public or private hospital if you have a serious incident and are unconscious for example.

I have worldwide cover all through the year, including winter sports etc, through my bank account. But I know triathlon isnt covered. So I also take out an annual policy that covers me for overseas triathlon racing as well.


I think the take-away from this story is that the BT licence offers little or no cover. While most people would have some level of travel insurance cover, they may think they do not need extra cover for racing as they have a BT licence. The BT licence assumes you are going to be using the NHS, and therefore is next to useless for cover abroad. In that regard, the French are protecting themselves from loads of Brits complaining they hadn't read the small print.

True. But as far as I am aware, that is the case for every single sport in the UK in terms of what NGB affiliation provides. It's a simple public liability insurance, so that if you ploughed into someone whilst running during a triathlon and they got hurt and sued you, you'd be protected for that. Same as if I was playing cricket in a local ECB Saturday league and hit a six over the nearby fence and it hit a neighbour. etc

Maybe I'm wrong to just presume everyone logically knows that.
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Buzz_




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
Maybe I'm wrong to just presume everyone logically knows that.

I admire your faith in your fellow man. I fear it is misplaced Smile
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iwaters




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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGreg wrote:
Getting a medical for IM Nice was pretty easy... Went into a tent, a lady shoved a finger up my ass, listened to my chest and took some notes out of my wallet!


Yeah, don't think that was for the medical certificate, but sounds like you had fun anyway Smile
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Chrace




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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just back from Bearman Xtri. What annoyed me was that individual day license was 30, and a team relay license was 5.

I thought it was a typo, but wtf?
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hammerer
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

awildt wrote:
Why do you think the UK is now almost all commercially organised events with over inflated entry fees - because the federation does NOTHING for grassroots in the sport and only cares about lottery funded elites that can be televised.



Can you expand on that point and give reasons for your belief that British triathlon does nothing for grass roots sport in this country?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
jayski wrote:
Totally agree. It is about time the BTF were held to account. Their funding will fall off a cliff when both Brownlees officially leave ITU racing and our Olympic medal prospects disappear.

Really? Maybe this is your point, but I don't see any benefit from my BTF membership other than eliminating my need to pay 5 race license fees for every event. Same as my EA membership.



Insurance? referees for events? coach education? Go Tri? Risk assessign all sanctioned events? and less for you but junior academies, junior training squads, Skills School. The list goes on. I do wish people would quit with the uneducated replies about the BTF doing nothing except for the Brownlees
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hammerer
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

awildt wrote:
s a better financial system than BTF that only benefits a few elites and not many others.


Can you expand on that again please?
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stenard




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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
stenard wrote:
jayski wrote:
Totally agree. It is about time the BTF were held to account. Their funding will fall off a cliff when both Brownlees officially leave ITU racing and our Olympic medal prospects disappear.

Really? Maybe this is your point, but I don't see any benefit from my BTF membership other than eliminating my need to pay 5 race license fees for every event. Same as my EA membership.



Insurance? referees for events? coach education? Go Tri? Risk assessign all sanctioned events? and less for you but junior academies, junior training squads, Skills School. The list goes on. I do wish people would quit with the uneducated replies about the BTF doing nothing except for the Brownlees

I was not saying the BTF provide no benefit. I was countering that each and every individual member should expect a clear and obvious direct, personal benefit. I'm not uneducated. I've been involved in other sports at a high level and know of all the things you talk about. That doesnt mean each and every member of a NGB should be expecting something in return, which often most do.

As I am not involved at the elite level of Tri, or the fact I came to it late and didnt therefore come through the junior pathway, I therefore have not benefited personally from any of the things you mention in relation to grassroots. At no point did I say I begrudged my BTF membership fee. I know very well that all the things you mention occur elsewhere in the British Tri "world", and I am happy that my membership fee helps to contribute to that.

The same with coaching. I'm a Level 1 and 2 qualified coach in another sport and know that coach education programmes are subsidised by wider membership fees. But I personally have not taken a coaching course in Tri, so again no direct benefit. Indirectly I do, as I am coached.

Insurance is a bit of a minor thing. Necessary for an event to go ahead without the risk of financially crushing litigation sure, but it doesnt really provide an individual athlete much. Race referees and race risk assessments is true, and yes I didnt specifically mention them, but along with event insurance, I would argue they are the kind of thing the costs of which are intended to be covered by day license fees for those racing and benefiting from their services who are not BTF members, so they are rolled up into my "negating the need for a day license" benefit.

But the point was, you've read what you wanted to into my post, and not what I actually said. Maybe I could have phrased it better, but as I was countering a post about how the "BTF should be held to account", I would have thought it was somewhat clear I was on the side of BTF. I'm a big advocate for the whole sport benefits provided by NGB's.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
hammerer wrote:
stenard wrote:
jayski wrote:
Totally agree. It is about time the BTF were held to account. Their funding will fall off a cliff when both Brownlees officially leave ITU racing and our Olympic medal prospects disappear.

Really? Maybe this is your point, but I don't see any benefit from my BTF membership other than eliminating my need to pay 5 race license fees for every event. Same as my EA membership.



Insurance? referees for events? coach education? Go Tri? Risk assessign all sanctioned events? and less for you but junior academies, junior training squads, Skills School. The list goes on. I do wish people would quit with the uneducated replies about the BTF doing nothing except for the Brownlees


I was not saying the BTF provide no benefit. I was countering that each and every individual member should expect a clear and obvious direct, personal benefit. I'm not uneducated. I've been involved in other sports at a high level and know of all the things you talk about. That doesnt mean each and every member of a NGB should be expecting something in return, which often most do.

As I am not involved at the elite level of Tri, or the fact I came to it late and didnt therefore come through the junior pathway, I therefore have not benefited personally from any of the things you mention in relation to grassroots. At no point did I say I begrudged my BTF membership fee. I know very well that all the things you mention occur elsewhere in the British Tri "world", and I am happy that my membership fee helps to contribute to that.

The same with coaching. I'm a Level 1 and 2 qualified coach in another sport and know that coach education programmes are subsidised by wider membership fees. But I personally have not taken a coaching course in Tri, so again no direct benefit. Indirectly I do, as I am coached.

Insurance is a bit of a minor thing. Necessary for an event to go ahead without the risk of financially crushing litigation sure, but it doesnt really provide an individual athlete much. Race referees and race risk assessments is true, and yes I didnt specifically mention them, but I would argue they are the kind of thing that are intended to be covered by day license fees for those racing and benefiting from their services who are not BTF members, so they are rolled up into my "negating the need for a day license" benefit.

But the point was, you've read what you wanted to into my post, and not what I actually said. Maybe I could have phrased it better, but as I was countering a post about how the "BTF should be held to account", I would have thought it was somewhat clear I was on the side of BTF. I'm a big advocate for the whole sport benefits provided by NGB's.


sorry it wasnt all directed at you. its just the BTF do loads for everyone in the sport which goes unnoticed. lots of poeple whine i get nothign but without them, theres no sport! I also know they do a lot wrong but I will support them as generally they are trying to do the best and they do not have the funds of other NGB's which really are borderline corrupt and make the BTF look like saints.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
Buzz_ wrote:
stenard wrote:
Buzz_ wrote:
stenard wrote:
Buzz_ wrote:
The 1 day licence does provide full medical cover, and the organiser does not want to check the small print of your travel insurance to see if you have cover paid for elsewhere.

Really? If so, then fair enough but that surprises me.

I thought this came up in the thread about travel insurance and Brit Tri cover, I would have to go back and search to be sure. But I recall links to horror stories of people presented with big bills for broken bones, having originally been told it was all covered by IM. When they realised they were not racing on a 1 day licence IM walked away and Brit Tri (basically E111) took over.

That would be their own fault. I have never raced abroad assuming I have any kind of cover for medical bills. The exact same as I don't travel abroad recreationally and assume that for simple accidents either.

Not arguing fault or blame, simply that a 1 day licence gives you medical cover whereas the BT licence doesn't and that might explain why the French are insisting the British buy a 1 day licence. Found the link in the Lanzerote thread:
https://midsussextriclub.com/race-reports/2014/9/27/a-cautionary-tale-from-ironman-lanzarote.aspx
"This was later confirmed by e-mail that had I purchased a 'Day Licence' the Race Organisers' Insurance would be responsible but as I had a licence from my own Federation that the Federation's insurance should cover me. The hospital I was taken to was a private hospital and would not accept the E111 card."

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
Maybe I'm the outlier in having previously looked through all the clauses associated with EHIC and determined there are way too many exclusions, loopholes, and requirements, that I would never want to rely on it. It somewhat annoys me that the NHS and other official bodies recommend it for travelling in Europe. In my opinion they should actually recommend getting proper travel insurance! Post-brexit I presume it disappears, so in that regard it should be less likely people get caught out. You can't influence whether you get taken to a public or private hospital if you have a serious incident and are unconscious for example.
l.


there were reciprocal agreements pre the eu and probably no reason why there cant be post eu also

The BMA put out a very one sided claim on the added stress/costs to the NHS should there be a no deal brexit...
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
hammerer wrote:
stenard wrote:
jayski wrote:
Totally agree. It is about time the BTF were held to account. Their funding will fall off a cliff when both Brownlees officially leave ITU racing and our Olympic medal prospects disappear.

Really? Maybe this is your point, but I don't see any benefit from my BTF membership other than eliminating my need to pay 5 race license fees for every event. Same as my EA membership.



Insurance? referees for events? coach education? Go Tri? Risk assessign all sanctioned events? and less for you but junior academies, junior training squads, Skills School. The list goes on. I do wish people would quit with the uneducated replies about the BTF doing nothing except for the Brownlees

I was not saying the BTF provide no benefit. I was countering that each and every individual member should expect a clear and obvious direct, personal benefit.

.


they do....every single person who takes part in either an event or trains at a club receives a clear and obvious direct benefit
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've actually joined the BTF again; way better now they do 12-month rolling membership.

I got 'stung' when I joined about 3/4 of the way through the year once - just got back from Germany and saw "BTF membership only ** join now" so I did, and it expired about 3 months later Rolling Eyes Evil or Very Mad That put me off re-joining for many years, until now.
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stenard




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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
stenard wrote:
hammerer wrote:
stenard wrote:
jayski wrote:
Totally agree. It is about time the BTF were held to account. Their funding will fall off a cliff when both Brownlees officially leave ITU racing and our Olympic medal prospects disappear.

Really? Maybe this is your point, but I don't see any benefit from my BTF membership other than eliminating my need to pay 5 race license fees for every event. Same as my EA membership.



Insurance? referees for events? coach education? Go Tri? Risk assessign all sanctioned events? and less for you but junior academies, junior training squads, Skills School. The list goes on. I do wish people would quit with the uneducated replies about the BTF doing nothing except for the Brownlees

I was not saying the BTF provide no benefit. I was countering that each and every individual member should expect a clear and obvious direct, personal benefit.

.


they do....every single person who takes part in either an event or trains at a club receives a clear and obvious direct benefit

If you are meaning the insurance, risk assessment, etc point, then to the average person, they are not clear and obvious. To anyone that has been involved in organisation of events in any sport they might be clear and obvious, but most people don't appreciate them.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
stenard wrote:
hammerer wrote:
stenard wrote:
jayski wrote:
Totally agree. It is about time the BTF were held to account. Their funding will fall off a cliff when both Brownlees officially leave ITU racing and our Olympic medal prospects disappear.

Really? Maybe this is your point, but I don't see any benefit from my BTF membership other than eliminating my need to pay 5 race license fees for every event. Same as my EA membership.



Insurance? referees for events? coach education? Go Tri? Risk assessign all sanctioned events? and less for you but junior academies, junior training squads, Skills School. The list goes on. I do wish people would quit with the uneducated replies about the BTF doing nothing except for the Brownlees

I was not saying the BTF provide no benefit. I was countering that each and every individual member should expect a clear and obvious direct, personal benefit.

.


they do....every single person who takes part in either an event or trains at a club receives a clear and obvious direct benefit

If you are meaning the insurance, risk assessment, etc point, then to the average person, they are not clear and obvious. To anyone that has been involved in organisation of events in any sport they might be clear and obvious, but most people don't appreciate them.


it's not clear when a competitor signs for the day licence that this isn't backed by a greater insurance policy than some guy collecting fivers?

blimey...
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stenard




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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
stenard wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
stenard wrote:
hammerer wrote:
stenard wrote:
jayski wrote:
Totally agree. It is about time the BTF were held to account. Their funding will fall off a cliff when both Brownlees officially leave ITU racing and our Olympic medal prospects disappear.

Really? Maybe this is your point, but I don't see any benefit from my BTF membership other than eliminating my need to pay 5 race license fees for every event. Same as my EA membership.



Insurance? referees for events? coach education? Go Tri? Risk assessign all sanctioned events? and less for you but junior academies, junior training squads, Skills School. The list goes on. I do wish people would quit with the uneducated replies about the BTF doing nothing except for the Brownlees

I was not saying the BTF provide no benefit. I was countering that each and every individual member should expect a clear and obvious direct, personal benefit.

.


they do....every single person who takes part in either an event or trains at a club receives a clear and obvious direct benefit

If you are meaning the insurance, risk assessment, etc point, then to the average person, they are not clear and obvious. To anyone that has been involved in organisation of events in any sport they might be clear and obvious, but most people don't appreciate them.


it's not clear when a competitor signs for the day licence that this isn't backed by a greater insurance policy than some guy collecting fivers?

blimey...

As I was told above in relation to personal injury/personal medical bills insurance, assuming the general public know anything about anything is apparently too much to expect.

I actually think the ignorance of some people with respect to over-expectation of what the 5, or annual BTF membership, brings is worse.

One guy from our club recently had his bike initially fail to turn up off a plane flight. He couldnt believe it when he was told his BTF membership wouldnt cover the cost of his bike if it ended up being totally lost. That's the kind of benefit people appear to *expect*, and when they find out that isn't the case they think they are being hard done by.
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