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12 years to Climate Change Armageddon
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1766

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jayski wrote:
People need to stop buying lots of the cheapest crap possible and start buying a few things that they can love, cherish and keep.

I dont disagree. But that doesnt serve the consumerist economy, and the theoretical growth it generates, that almost the entire world now relies upon.
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Gus




Joined: 07 Sep 2007
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Location: Freezing my nads off in Aberdoom

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few years ago, I was sitting on a balcony in Dubai Mall overlooking the Dubai skyline at night. It was an impressive sea of buildings lit up with the most spectacular light shows as far as the eye could see. Aircon units blasting out everywhere... the indoor ski-slope in the distance maintaining -5 degrees against the 40 degree heat...

My wife and I remarked how we had all just been forced to use those light-bulbs at home that take 10 minutes to warm up - to 'save the planet'.

Glad we bothered.
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jayski




Joined: 30 Jul 2018
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
jayski wrote:
People need to stop buying lots of the cheapest crap possible and start buying a few things that they can love, cherish and keep.

I dont disagree. But that doesnt serve the consumerist economy, and the theoretical growth it generates, that almost the entire world now relies upon.


Absolutely. So we are already screwed.
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jayski




Joined: 30 Jul 2018
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:
jayski wrote:
I am amazed by the sheer cluelessness around this whole topic.


Its Tritalk - not MENSA Very Happy

Anyway, one has to live in the real world so your suggestion will never work.

And until you can figure out how to make 6 billion people change their entire lives, then wringing your hands won't do anything.

The enemy of Good, is The Best, so demanding the best from everyone will get you absolutely nowhere.


I wasnt referring to tritalk - I also dont think mensa is a great source for this either. I mean politically and generally. People just dont get it. Pushing policies that are merely storing up a bigger disaster for 30 years time when WE WILL ALL BE AROUND (probably!) and will have to handle the #@?# then. It makes me angry because the concept is so basic
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 15636
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
What the UN says or does on this is almost irrelevant; it's what World leaders do that counts. Legislation to mitigate for climate change is what matters.

Even compared to 20 years ago, we do recycle a lot more waste, and electric/hybrid cars are becoming more commonplace. But it takes time. But Govts need to incentivise greener behaviours from business; supermarket packaging still seems like low-hanging fruit as a starter for 10.


What the UN says would carry more weight if they got their own house in order first...

We already have legislation - but it is not working...we need individual responsibility...
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
jayski wrote:
People need to stop buying lots of the cheapest crap possible and start buying a few things that they can love, cherish and keep.

I dont disagree. But that doesnt serve the consumerist economy, and the theoretical growth it generates, that almost the entire world now relies upon.


i really don't understand people who buy carp...
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We should sterilise all men who wear hats indoors. Would that help?
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1610
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
stenard wrote:
jayski wrote:
People need to stop buying lots of the cheapest crap possible and start buying a few things that they can love, cherish and keep.

I dont disagree. But that doesnt serve the consumerist economy, and the theoretical growth it generates, that almost the entire world now relies upon.


i really don't understand people who buy carp...


I guess they're a bit more impressive than goldfish when you are showing off your pond to your mates?
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 531
Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jayski wrote:
I am amazed by the sheer cluelessness around this whole topic.

Recycling in itself is not a solution - glass for example, takes more energy and co2 to recycle than to produce new.

Electric cars are an abysmal idea. At the end of their useful life we will be left with a massive problem and nobody seems to discuss the energy used in production of these vehicles (far higher than conventional cars)

We just need to consume differently. That will have an incredible effect.

People need to stop buying lots of the cheapest crap possible and start buying a few things that they can love, cherish and keep.


I agree with a lot of the above - the complex electronics in modern cars and the growth of electric cars means that many vehicles have built in obsolescence. It would probably be more environmentally sound to create vehicles that are reliable and last much longer. What we really need to do is reduce the miles that we drive by providing much better public transport, and/or by providing improved cycling facilities (this could help reduce burden on health service as well)

Business's are driven by creating a consumer society, rather than by creating high quality products, this is ultimately putting massive pressure on resources
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2853

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:


Business's are driven by creating a consumer society, rather than by creating high quality products, this is ultimately putting massive pressure on resources
and now you are entering my playground Wink

Why do they do that?

This is a perfect illustration of darkness (not evil or bad just darkness) at play in individuals and organisations.

At the uppermost level....Greed, ego (we are the biggest etc), desire for power, etc.

Down a level....to keep the quarterly results going...and why? See above. But also fear of losing your job for non performance.

Down a further level, the poor managers have targets to meet, regardless of the external consequences (like iirc what jobcentre whistleblowers have reported in a different context).


Once the human race evolves sufficiently so that desire, greed, egos etc donít control our decision making, then things have a good chance of self sorting fairly quickly. But that really would require global unison, which is unlikely.

The profit motive is good, but it has been taken to excess, and rebalancing it would go a long way to sustainability, and a more balanced life for all.

But hey what do I know.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
mattsurf wrote:


Business's are driven by creating a consumer society, rather than by creating high quality products, this is ultimately putting massive pressure on resources
and now you are entering my playground Wink

Why do they do that?

This is a perfect illustration of darkness (not evil or bad just darkness) at play in individuals and organisations.

At the uppermost level....Greed, ego (we are the biggest etc), desire for power, etc.

Down a level....to keep the quarterly results going...and why? See above. But also fear of losing your job for non performance.

Down a further level, the poor managers have targets to meet, regardless of the external consequences (like iirc what jobcentre whistleblowers have reported in a different context).


Once the human race evolves sufficiently so that desire, greed, egos etc donít control our decision making, then things have a good chance of self sorting fairly quickly. But that really would require global unison, which is unlikely.

The profit motive is good, but it has been taken to excess, and rebalancing it would go a long way to sustainability, and a more balanced life for all.

But hey what do I know.


it really isn't that difficult.....stop blaming everyone else and take personal responsibility of your body parts...

if no one buys it, they will stop making it soon enough...
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 15636
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerbongo wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
stenard wrote:
jayski wrote:
People need to stop buying lots of the cheapest crap possible and start buying a few things that they can love, cherish and keep.

I dont disagree. But that doesnt serve the consumerist economy, and the theoretical growth it generates, that almost the entire world now relies upon.


i really don't understand people who buy carp...


I guess they're a bit more impressive than goldfish when you are showing off your pond to your mates?


all sounds a bit fishy to me...
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JaRok2300




Joined: 01 May 2014
Posts: 376
Location: Worcester, UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

all sounds a bit fishy to me...[/quote]

No need to be so Koi about it!
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2853

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as he stops talking Carp I donít mind.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

but hey fish, what do you know?
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Last edited by explorerJC on Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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