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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2966

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jibberjim wrote:
gingerbongo wrote:
clue: 'literally'


Literally has just had the definition you want since before Dickens, it's always been used exactly in the sense used by our crazy Scot. An intensifier applied to figurative speech.

Sloggers, the crazy Scot. Got a good ring to it donít you think. Laughing

FatPom, language may not be my strongest point that is for sure, but lazy I am not. Remember I took myself from a broken home in a Scots council estate with a schizophrenic mum, through university when that was difficult and through Price Waterhouse, and since then I have worked very hard in all sorts of ways, some of which you know about here.

My life path may have been somewhat unusual over my five plus decades, but it has equipped me well for many of the challenges that are currently facing us.

Sloggers the Crazy Scot.
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GrahamO




Joined: 10 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
Except government policy is inducing real fear into people, and it is causing homelessness and lack of food.


Its not the job of government to hand out enough money to make everyone happy though as the more you hand out of my money to others to make them happy, that I get more unhappy. You cannot win.

Similarly with homelessness and food. Not everyone can expect to be fed and housed by the state and if you recall at the last election bar one, there was very popular support for the cutting back of benefits etc. Something like 70% overall, with even 60% of the lefties voting for cutbacks.

Remember the government actually has no money to spend - they have our money and we decide what they do with it (largely).
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jibberjim




Joined: 15 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FatPom wrote:
jibberjim wrote:
gingerbongo wrote:
clue: 'literally'


Literally has just had the definition you want since before Dickens, it's always been used exactly in the sense used by our crazy Scot. An intensifier applied to figurative speech.


No it hasn't, it's been adopted by those too lazy to articulate themselves on social media.


"'Lift him out,' said Squeers, after he had literally feasted his eyes, in silence, upon the culprit. 'Bring him in; bring him in!'"

Now, I suppose you can claim Victorian serialisations were in some way "social media", and Dickens had lots of followers, but come on...
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FatPom




Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 5359
Location: My happy place

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jibberjim wrote:
FatPom wrote:
jibberjim wrote:
gingerbongo wrote:
clue: 'literally'


Literally has just had the definition you want since before Dickens, it's always been used exactly in the sense used by our crazy Scot. An intensifier applied to figurative speech.


No it hasn't, it's been adopted by those too lazy to articulate themselves on social media.


"'Lift him out,' said Squeers, after he had literally feasted his eyes, in silence, upon the culprit. 'Bring him in; bring him in!'"

Now, I suppose you can claim Victorian serialisations were in some way "social media", and Dickens had lots of followers, but come on...


Just because Dickens got it wrong, doesn't let the rest of us off the hook.
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2966

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:


Remember the government actually has no money to spend - they have our money and we decide what they do with it (largely).
Graham that is factually incorrect. I know you donít like economists but basic economics will tell you that governments can and do print money out of thin air. Recently it has been made more palatable in the guise of quantative easing. But even Milton Friedman has written about, and politicians are talking about, helicopter money. In essence giving everyone an account with the central bank and simply printing money to give them (except it would obviously be clicks on a computer screen, not a printing press nowadays).

This isnít me talking. Those are esteemed economists and politicians. I know those words in the same sentence, I must be poorly.

Get it wrong and you get Hyperinflation and wrecked economies. Get it right and you solve the banking crisis, and prevent another Great Depression. Globally governments do it every year.

Not only is it reality but even the Economist has recently discussed how it is likely to be used much more in the coming recession.


Realising that your money is no more than a made up concept to help organise life more efficiently is tough at first, but that is all it is. Made up.
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BigFoz




Joined: 25 Jun 2004
Posts: 1895
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Remember the government actually has no money to spend - they have our money and we decide what they do with it (largely).


Actually not true, as it's our currency, underwritten by our debt, we can do whatever the heck we want. Think Quantitive Easing and DUP handouts...
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
Ejc

Except government policy is inducing real fear into people, and it is causing homelessness and lack of food. There is plenty of evidential support out there, if you look for it, and that, subject to the key drivers of such things changing, will only increase as the rollout continues, causing further absolute poverty in the U.K.

Donít get me wrong Ejc I actually think that UC is a very good idea, for several reasons. It has just been very poorly implemented, and in places poorly thought out.

Just now the government are trying to manage the fallout from 30 Tory MPs who are beginning to see this. As time passes that number will only increase, unless a rethink happens to deal with those issues. But that hits an ideological wall of a flagship policy. Even the chap who came up with UC has iirc now said that it has been screwed up. Politicians eh, think they know it all. Anyone else inducing fear into so many people would be prosecuted under the Terrorism Act.

But as long as you are ok Ejc, all is good.


It's not me who has been moaning all this time, though is it?

i suppose i could work longer hours, perhaps?
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 15908
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
GrahamO wrote:


Remember the government actually has no money to spend - they have our money and we decide what they do with it (largely).
Graham that is factually incorrect. I know you donít like economists but basic economics will tell you that governments can and do print money out of thin air. Recently it has been made more palatable in the guise of quantative easing. But even Milton Friedman has written about, and politicians are talking about, helicopter money. In essence giving everyone an account with the central bank and simply printing money to give them (except it would obviously be clicks on a computer screen, not a printing press nowadays).

This isnít me talking. Those are esteemed economists and politicians. I know those words in the same sentence, I must be poorly.

Get it wrong and you get Hyperinflation and wrecked economies. Get it right and you solve the banking crisis, and prevent another Great Depression. Globally governments do it every year.

Not only is it reality but even the Economist has recently discussed how it is likely to be used much more in the coming recession.


Realising that your money is no more than a made up concept to help organise life more efficiently is tough at first, but that is all it is. Made up.


yes, a bit of inflation is what we all need right now...
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GrahamO




Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 10166
Location: United Arab Emirates or an airport

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
But even Milton Friedman has written about, and politicians are talking about, helicopter money. In essence giving everyone an account with the central bank and simply printing money to give them (except it would obviously be clicks on a computer screen, not a printing press nowadays).

This isnít me talking. Those are esteemed economists and politicians. .


They talk about all sorts of things and make up more nonsense than anyone else.

There are no esteemed economists - just random guessing chancers with no more than a single successful guess to their names.

People usually end up citing Kurgmans views but he didnt even get the Nobel Prize which the economics muppets usually quote when trying to use his views as a reason. He got his in a rather narrow irrelevant field with little practical applications but is regularly quoted as an economic guru.

If he was that good, he, along with the rest of the economists would be rich but he's not even close.
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:
.

If he was that good, he, along with the rest of the economists would be rich but he's not even close.
again GrahamO I have to challenge your view of life.

Sure many successful people make loads of money. After all our world now runs on it.

However many successful people are broke, as not everything has monetary value, for example a good mother. Equally, some jobs are low paid, I canít imagine for example many mi5 officers being all that well paid, yet their work to keep us safe is invaluable, and some of them are probably very successful in preventing bad stuff. Finally, money being one of the fastest routes to darkness known to man (it creates desire, greed, the need for control and power, inflates egos, makes you feel better than others etc) there are strong arguments, in terms of human evolution, to avoid being rich. On another forum I was chatting about this to someone who claims to be the son of a millionaire, and he confirmed that his father, for all the opportunities money offers, is miserable. Ever seem a family fight over money after a death? Money itself is not the problem, it is the desire for it (still waiting on my half trillion pounds sterling btw Wink ). Money can divorce you from human compassion. It can and does suck the humanity out of people.

Donít get me wrong GrahamO, money is valuable and useful, but it is by far the mark of success in our world. Yes it shows success in one subset of human existence, but it can come at great cost. While our world is full of very successful poor people.

Why do you think that people who suddenly come into money have such a hard time wisely using it? It drives your ego, makes you feel invincible, etc.

Esoterically the energetic power of money is fascinating to watch. But this isnít the place for that. Just think about how money can change people, sometimes for the better, but often for the worse.

One of the, as yet undiscussed as far as I know, benefits of helicopter money, is that it would help rebalance our world, which would in turn strength the positions of those in power, while enabling social and economic progress (well the last bit is being discussed as a posssible solution to the upcoming recession).
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
GrahamO wrote:
.

If he was that good, he, along with the rest of the economists would be rich but he's not even close.
again GrahamO I have to challenge your view of life.

Sure many successful people make loads of money. After all our world now runs on it.

However many successful people are broke, as not everything has monetary value, for example a good mother. Equally, some jobs are low paid, I canít imagine for example many mi5 officers being all that well paid, yet their work to keep us safe is invaluable, and some of them are probably very successful in preventing bad stuff. Finally, money being one of the fastest routes to darkness known to man (it creates desire, greed, the need for control and power, inflates egos, makes you feel better than others etc) there are strong arguments, in terms of human evolution, to avoid being rich. On another forum I was chatting about this to someone who claims to be the son of a millionaire, and he confirmed that his father, for all the opportunities money offers, is miserable. Ever seem a family fight over money after a death? Money itself is not the problem, it is the desire for it (still waiting on my half trillion pounds sterling btw Wink ). Money can divorce you from human compassion. It can and does suck the humanity out of people.

Donít get me wrong GrahamO, money is valuable and useful, but it is by far the mark of success in our world. Yes it shows success in one subset of human existence, but it can come at great cost. While our world is full of very successful poor people.

Why do you think that people who suddenly come into money have such a hard time wisely using it? It drives your ego, makes you feel invincible, etc.

Esoterically the energetic power of money is fascinating to watch. But this isnít the place for that. Just think about how money can change people, sometimes for the better, but often for the worse.

One of the, as yet undiscussed as far as I know, benefits of helicopter money, is that it would help rebalance our world, which would in turn strength the positions of those in power, while enabling social and economic progress (well the last bit is being discussed as a posssible solution to the upcoming recession).


Two major issues, firstly, inflation...followed by more injections of money, followed by hyperinflation...

Secondly, if there has ever been a disincentive to working hard, it's a free lunch, followed by another free lunch...
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ejc

Tell that to the policy wonks et all who are discussing this seriously and publicly.

I first talked about such things perhaps a decade ago, nice to see people catch up. Wink (for any who wish to verify especially relatively recently re clearing the deficit in an afternoon).

I am glad you agree with me Ejc that handled badly it could wreck the economy. But it is coming.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
Ejc

Tell that to the policy wonks et all who are discussing this seriously and publicly.

I first talked about such things perhaps a decade ago, nice to see people catch up. Wink (for any who wish to verify especially relatively recently re clearing the deficit in an afternoon).

I am glad you agree with me Ejc that handled badly it could wreck the economy. But it is coming.


yes, but they still talk about marxism too without understanding the shocking impact that had on the world...(and still does to some extent)...and some people still want to follow that programme through again...

There are benefits to a controlled easing of third world debt, but we are going to have to pay/work our way out of this mess....they would have to be twattastic to think they can simply devalue everything without creating massive relative poverty...
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ejc

You will remember that every time I talk about this I highlight the very real hyperinflation risks etc.

But... it really is possible to pay off all debt in full. The accounting entries are easy (I posted them on fb talking to Edward R I think), the economics are possible, and now wonks are coming around to it, through necessity. Nothing needs, in theory, to be devalued (but in practice greed would likely interfere).

The problem....is human nature. Politicians will go too far too fast trying to improve their career; nations will want to act out of unison to gain relative advantage; nations and organisations may not want to temporarily lose their power, etc.

And then there are the likes of you, Graham etc who would realise that they are living in a fantasy and that money isnít any more than computer generated nothingness. That would have obvious effects on social stability that would take wise politicians to explain and calm.

Yet for all that, it is being discussed as a response to the coming recession. I just hope that our politicians then, in a few short years, are wise enough to make a positive difference without wrecking the country/global economy.

There would definitely be a first mover advantage hence the need for unified global action.

I am not holding my breath.

The real funny bit is that it is being discussed as a response to the coming recession, when wise application at a much smaller level could proactively help reduce the depth of the coming recession. But I doubt anyone would be that brave, easier when your back is against the wall.

Handled wisely though it could strengthen the global economy and secure politicians power, while improving the lives of everyone. The cynic in me just doesnít see that level of wisdom in politicians.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:


And then there are the likes of you, Graham etc who would realise that they are living in a fantasy and that money isnít any more than computer generated nothingness.


The confidence with which you incorrectly judge other people is perhaps only matched by your spectacularly misplaced confidence in your ideas.

Devaluing everything isn't just a risk of your suggested strategy, it is a reality...
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