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YKK




Joined: 23 Oct 2011
Posts: 305
Location: North&West london

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buzz_ wrote:
When I look at race time prediction charts, my times line up pretty well from 3K to half marathon, but the marathon prediction is always too aggressive. I assume this is because my training tends to be lower mileage and you can't blag a marathon.


It is funny, despite training exclusively for long distance,
My best performances according to age grading/runBritain/Garmin Predictor are 2 10ks & 2 1/2 marathons over different seasons.

Whilst the 5k & marathon pb's are less impressive.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 15996
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

YKK wrote:
Buzz_ wrote:
When I look at race time prediction charts, my times line up pretty well from 3K to half marathon, but the marathon prediction is always too aggressive. I assume this is because my training tends to be lower mileage and you can't blag a marathon.


It is funny, despite training exclusively for long distance,
My best performances according to age grading/runBritain/Garmin Predictor are 2 10ks & 2 1/2 marathons over different seasons.

Whilst the 5k & marathon pb's are less impressive.


that would be me too...but there are probably answers to that both in our physiology and training programmes....
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 1266
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poet wrote:
Twhat - Yes. Bad wording. But you knew what I meant. Phew!
Age grading is “within” 75% of the WR (is that right?)
You run 79.55%, so yes, that’s proper decent.

eJC - 5 is the median and mean of a 0-10 scale.


It's expressed as the percentage of your time the world record holder would take (have taken). So if you run the world record (for someone the same age) you have hit 100%. Its never clearly explained though so its kind of counter intuitive. Anyway... big number good, low number less good. I think my 79.55 should maybe have gone down as 'semi decent' or 'halfway decent' as opposed to the 'pretty decent' i used. Proper decent is too generous. I reckon i need at least 85% for that. Mea Culpa

Wink
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Buzz_




Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 431

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

twhat wrote:
Poet wrote:
Twhat - Yes. Bad wording. But you knew what I meant. Phew!
Age grading is “within” 75% of the WR (is that right?)
You run 79.55%, so yes, that’s proper decent.

eJC - 5 is the median and mean of a 0-10 scale.


It's expressed as the percentage of your time the world record holder would take (have taken). So if you run the world record (for someone the same age) you have hit 100%. Its never clearly explained though so its kind of counter intuitive. Anyway... big number good, low number less good. I think my 79.55 should maybe have gone down as 'semi decent' or 'halfway decent' as opposed to the 'pretty decent' i used. Proper decent is too generous. I reckon i need at least 85% for that. Mea Culpa

Wink

I think age grading is scaled against the world record for your age, not the world record. Hence how you can compare 20 year olds with 60 year olds. So 80% on an age graded rating might not be above 75% of the world record.
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 779
Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did a tempo 13km run at lunch, path runs alongside a river 100m elevation gain, with lots of small but steep ups and downs, some slightly rutted tracks and slippery in places. I was pleased to see that I did a 10k pb just over 42mins (70% AG WR). On a good course sub 40 should be well within reach
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 15996
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poet wrote:
Twhat - Yes. Bad wording. But you knew what I meant. Phew!
Age grading is “within” 75% of the WR (is that right?)
You run 79.55%, so yes, that’s proper decent.

eJC - 5 is the median and mean of a 0-10 scale.


indeed...hence not necessarily being the average score...
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 1266
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:
Did a tempo 13km run at lunch, path runs alongside a river 100m elevation gain, with lots of small but steep ups and downs, some slightly rutted tracks and slippery in places. I was pleased to see that I did a 10k pb just over 42mins (70% AG WR). On a good course sub 40 should be well within reach


Nice one. Crazy how quick some of these AG world record times are though eh ? M40 record 27.49. Luckily I age up in April to the slightly more' attainable' 29.44 in M45. Shocked
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 779
Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

twhat wrote:
mattsurf wrote:
Did a tempo 13km run at lunch, path runs alongside a river 100m elevation gain, with lots of small but steep ups and downs, some slightly rutted tracks and slippery in places. I was pleased to see that I did a 10k pb just over 42mins (70% AG WR). On a good course sub 40 should be well within reach


Nice one. Crazy how quick some of these AG world record times are though eh ? M40 record 27.49. Luckily I age up in April to the slightly more' attainable' 29.44 in M45. Shocked


I am M45, so just need to take off 1min/km and I will be an AG record holder Very Happy

Trouble is that 1min/km off my 10k pace is roughly my 400m pace
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PhilleusPhogg




Joined: 11 May 2015
Posts: 303

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tigger wrote:
mattsurf wrote:
My fast half was 4:40 pace, while I run a 5km at 3:55 (19m30 parkrun), my fastest intervals are 3:20 pace


I quite like the Jack Daniels VDOT approach. It's worked well for me in the past. If your current all-out 5k time is 19:30 then that suggests an easy pace of around 5:15 per km.


+1 for Jack Daniels; Daniels Running Formula is hands-down the best training related book I've read.

Two things that stand out are:
1. the training zones/paces are pretty straightforward to understand, and each 'zone' is clearly explained without any unnecessary complications.
2. There's loads and loads of common sense advice about how to make each session give the maximum benefit for the least amount of 'cost' or effort.

If you're self-coached for running, then this should give you all the tools you need, then it's a case of following the other great advice on this thread about how much of the faster paced training you do in your plan depending on your volumes and race goals.
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