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If you want a shot at KQ, how and when would you do it?
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doca wrote:
stenard wrote:
ttowel wrote:
You will need to be under 9.40 on a decent course. Thats the level required.

I'm guessing that's specific to the OP being 45?

For me, I just can't see it's ever a realistic option. I went 9:51 in my first ever race, and the final slot went to someone going 8:53. I get that there is a level of growth the more you do, and I've seen that in 70.3 and surprised myself with a 4:28 and a Nice slot, but the time commitment and dedication TRO talks about when trying to KQ is just unfathomable, especially when I can't see any way to knock an entire hour off my time, and that's just to scrape in!


I don't think we are far apart Stenard, your certainly a far a better swimmer & have quicker 1/2 mara time than me. I was 4 mins out at Wales I think you would be pretty close at Wales or Bolton. In Europe, forget it.


Course selection is paramount...as H says above, trying to coach someone qualify in austria is just about impossible...Lanza is possible if all goes in your favour and the course/conditions (which can be mixed) suit...
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ttowel




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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also forget Barcelona and Wales.

They are possibly the most stacked fields as they give the longest prep time for following year.

Races with more slots and championship races are the most likely to roll down.

In Frankfurt 2017, the 45 ag rolled down to 12th, 50-54 went to 11th (9.39) The 55-59 went down to 29th! (11.35)
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttowel wrote:
Also forget Barcelona and Wales.

They are possibly the most stacked fields as they give the longest prep time for following year.

Races with more slots and championship races are the most likely to roll down.

In Frankfurt 2017, the 45 ag rolled down to 12th, 50-54 went to 11th (9.39) The 55-59 went down to 29th! (11.35)


yep...

drums fingers heavily on the table...
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
drums fingers heavily on the table...


But a duathlete's swim ain't gonna cut-it; and what if it's non-wetsuit again Very Happy Wink
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
drums fingers heavily on the table...


But a duathlete's swim ain't gonna cut-it; and what if it's non-wetsuit again Very Happy Wink


the swim is just the warm up... Smile
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TRO Saracen




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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadly drafting was the biggest factor in my choice of KQ attempt race.

You simply have to avoid the flat Euro draftf-fest races IMO, as you'll be competing against people prepared to, and allowed to cheat on the bike for KQ and it's not bridgable. Bad for me as a UK TT-er I'm best suited to the flat courses.

My placings for draft fests (IM Italy/Barca) were 15-20 places/40 odd mins off KQ . Where drafting was less - Wales (too hilly), Florida (very well policed) I was bang in contention. I was in pretty similar shape across these races.

It's not just the advantage they accrue, but the impact on your own race as you have to surge/soft pedal etc through the bike to avoid using the peletons. That grates, when you're poured yourself into 7 months of training....
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Joss1965




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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out the qualifying times around the world. Assume that each year each age group gets a little bit harder so your best bet is when you are new to an age group. Pick a less popular event (Bolton?) or be prepared to travel (China/Argentina). Choose continental championships, they have more slots or look for events that have been given more slots to celebrate an anniversary etc.

I'm self coached but have been doing tri for 30 years so I would say probably get a coach rather than following an off the shelf plan, which are pretty generic. A coach will tailor your training to what works for you.

Finally....work your ass off because whichever way you look at it, it's damn hard.
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fruit thief




Joined: 18 May 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: If you want a shot at KQ, how and when would you do it? Reply with quote

Thanks for the tips

I like this:

Doca wrote:
not chasing it as an end goal though, I am following a path of self improvement, working on my weaknesses and just enjoying the process/lifestyle.

Those that I have seen throw all their chips into a qualifying year have mostly ended in disappointment, the odds are just too low and the cost too high.


Think that's pretty much how it seems to me too. Have been a triathlete forever, and watched Kona on TV/internet every year since 1992. It just feels like a pilgrimage I want to make at some point. However I'm very aware that I may not be good enough, and even if I'm good enough I may not be clever enough, and even if I'm clever enough I may not be lucky enough. So yes the journey would be the cake, and qualifying (or not) would be the icing, but a plain cake's still a great thing to eat when you want a cake. Maybe that's an inappropriate nutritional metaphor but meh.

I guess it would be multi-year project & being a plotter and a plodder am trying to work out how someone's life would need to look, to start that project in earnest.

Work / lack of
Family support and engagement
£££
Coaching (think I'd need this)
Keeping it enjoyable
Toys
Structured doping and drafting programme, thanks trowel for that pointer

Anything missing?
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ttowel




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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Process:

get your 400m swim under 6, and a sub hour IM
Ride lots of 100s, do a sub 4.30 100 mile TT, a sub hour 25
Run a 1.25 half marathon, try to get under a 3 hour marathon in an off season from triathlon.

Be in that shape and you have a fighting chance.
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fruit thief




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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Mr ME




Joined: 25 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with most of whatís already been written here so these are just a few extra thoughts.
I qualified in Bolton in 2015. Qualification was the culmination of an 18 month plan and my first real attempt at qualification. In hindsight I know I was extremely lucky. I had pretty much the perfect race (for me). The stars aligned and I couldnít have asked for things to go better. Itís hard to plan for that.
There were a few things in my favour. After several years of crazy work hours I knew the beginning of 2015 would offer some respite sometimes dipping down to 4 days a week.
Also by that point our kids were 2 and 4. Still young but slightly beyond the craziness of infancy.
Not everything went perfectly- in early Jan I had a bad crash and broke my hand which confined me to the turbo and stopped all swimming for 12 weeks.
Going into the project I knew I was short in natural ability and Iíd need to rely on consistency and hard work to see me through. This brings me to my main point.
Iíd never been so motivated to achieve anything. I agree with another posters comments that the process has the potential to lead to a sad life but for me I loved every moment of the process - perhaps even more than the outcome. I never missed a session and never begrudged any of the training hours.
Sadly I canít say the same of my training and racing since then. Bolton and Kona both went near to perfect but despite putting in similar hours Iíve not managed to get back to that level of performance since then. I suspect that it was the sky high levels of desire and motivation that made the difference.
My point is that itís hard/impossible to plan for that level of motivation.
If youíre feeling that now donít put it off, you may not get a second chance. Good luck

My Bolton report with more details if youíre interested


http://www.tritalk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=96081&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=255
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snowie




Joined: 06 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr ME wrote:



Iíd never been so motivated to achieve anything. I agree with another posters comments that the process has the potential to lead to a sad life but for me I loved every moment of the process - perhaps even more than the outcome. I never missed a session and never begrudged any of the training hours.
Sadly I canít say the same of my training and racing since then. Bolton and Kona both went near to perfect but despite putting in similar hours Iíve not managed to get back to that level of performance since then. I suspect that it was the sky high levels of desire and motivation that made the difference.
My point is that itís hard/impossible to plan for that level of motivation.
If youíre feeling that now donít put it off, you may not get a second chance. Good luck


I've qualified twice & Mr Me is bang on the button.

pick your course carefully not the destination, kona can be the holiday
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttowel wrote:
Process:

get your 400m swim under 6, and a sub hour IM
Ride lots of 100s, do a sub 4.30 100 mile TT, a sub hour 25
Run a 1.25 half marathon, try to get under a 3 hour marathon in an off season from triathlon.

Be in that shape and you have a fighting chance.

That's kinda interesting.
I'm well under the 400 time, and swam 1.01.
I've done back to back years of 79min HMs and aim to put the Sub3 to rest next month (altho not counting any chickens).
The bike I'm a bit off. I did 4:43 in my first 100 last year, but it was my key IM simulation ride so I didn't leave it all out there. It also was a fairly lumpy course. Not actually done a 25 yet.

But as I said before, those times just don't seem to translate to the level I'm seeing that's necessary. All the people from my club who've gone are comfortably better bikers and runners than me. At that 100 for example one of our guys who was off to Kona did 4:09. That's a different ball game, and he runs Sub3 for fun. One of the others is a sub2:40 marathoner, etc. And it's not like they're dominating their AG...they tend to be squeaking in!
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttowel wrote:
Process:

get your 400m swim under 6, and a sub hour IM
Ride lots of 100s, do a sub 4.30 100 mile TT, a sub hour 25
Run a 1.25 half marathon, try to get under a 3 hour marathon in an off season from triathlon.

Be in that shape and you have a fighting chance.


I think I have some way to go:
My 400m is 6m45s
I have not ridden a 100, but comfortable sub hour 25
I have not run a competitive HM or Marathon for more than 2 years, so no idea, however, I suspect that I am around 1h27 HM and 3h15 Marathon

Great write up from Bolton by Mr Me, how much did you weigh at the time?
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Mr ME




Joined: 25 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:


Great write up from Bolton by Mr Me, how much did you weigh at the time?


Hmmm... donít like to get too obsessed with weight so I donít keep accurate records but it would have been somewhere around the 74kg mark. Iím 180cm tall.

Also Stenard Iíve been thinking this for a while but I think you may be the only person on this forum who doesnít think youíve got a very good shot at qualifying given the right course and the right day. Do it!!
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