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ray




Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 11:42 pm    Post subject: LSD Speed Reply with quote

been reading on the Jeff Galloway site that for your LSD run's you should be looking at doing them 2 to 3 min slower than your fast run.

i have always been doing them about 30 sec slower.

has any one followed the galloway rules, and dose it realy make a diffrence Confused
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Captain Caveman




Joined: 09 Mar 2005
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Location: S Wales

PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My fast run tends to be about 7.30 min/mile and my LSD recently has been about 9-10min/mile

My fast runs are 30-45 mins and my LSD now between 1.30 and 2.20 so far

I think if you go to hard on your LSD then you risk overtraining and injury when the main benefit is to teach your body to be on your feet for a long time and strengthen your ligaments/tendons. There is less need to go fast as the emphasis is different and you may compromise the rest of your week by going too fast for too long. Perhaps your ast is not fast enough?!?

You do need to train at different speeds or the body ma learn only one pace

The advice often given to triathletes who train to much in the "grey area" is to make your easy sessions easier and your hard sessions harder

(Did I just quote Troy? I know many coaches will promote this though)
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JetStream




Joined: 23 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No comment, but here's what I do:

'Fast running' sub-6
'Steady Running' 7-7:10
'Long running' 7:30-:45
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JaffaCake




Joined: 28 Jul 2004
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Location: Richmond Upon Thames

PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Different running speeds affect slightly different combinations of muscles and a variety of running speeds in training is a good thing, but does the speed you run at greatly affect the amount of muscle damage?
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marktickner




Joined: 05 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 9:03 am    Post subject: LSD Reply with quote

Running at lower heart rates and intensities not only feels easier so that you can run for longer but the main thing is that it teaches your body to burn fat more efficiently. You cannot burn fat as efficiently at higher intensities as simply your burning less and less fat as you work harder. Eventually as you go completely anaerobic you stop burning fat altogether.

As you get more efficient at burning fat on your LSD runs your aerobic engine improves it's ability to burn more fat at higher intensities. Thus enabling you to run faster for longer.
Think of a car... you want to go further on the same tank of fuel, you ease up on the accellerator and cruise along nice and easy. You take the hills nice and easy, no sudden bursts overtaking, but just ticking along below 3000 RPM. This way you can go further, save money and it's better for the engine... your body acts in the same way.

Many triathletes and runners will run too fast for their long steady distance runs. As a result do not burn fat as efficiently which in turn makes them slow down during their long triathlons during the run as they start to burn more carbs instead. Carbs are your quick source of energy wheras fat is your slow release. You want to train your body to burn more fat at higher intensities so that you can keep going for longer.

Your body has around 2500 - 4500 available calories from carbs/sugars to use as fuel, BUT nearly 10 times that amount at 20 - 30000 calories available from fat as fuel! So it stands to reason you want to tap into your ability to burn fat for longer.
As you get fitter and more efficient, you will get faster at the same heart rates and intensities thus still burning fat and still having many calories from fat available during your race. If you run out of glycogen/carbs/sugars... GAME OVER!

This is why it is so important to top up your glycogen constantly in an Ironman for instance. To be able to keep your glycogen stores up. Your fat will keep you going throughout the race as you have so many calories, but run out of glycogen you will 'bonk'. It is an art to get this right.

Mark
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duncan74




Joined: 06 May 2004
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark, I've never fully understood this, but bear with me.

1) You train your body to burn fat faster, and so come race day can race at a higher intensity still using your fat reserves as the main fuel and the glycogen as just a catalyst.
2) The high intensity short runs combined with the long steady runs actually develop the muscles in your legs to actually provide more efficient translation of energy into motion, so that your total calories requirement drops for teh slower speed, hence you can up the speed a bit and use the same calories.

So in 1) your improveing hte fuel supply, in 2 your improving the efficiency of the engine. In reality is it a combination of the two, or is it strictly 2) that often gets described as 1)?
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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ginger ninja




Joined: 27 Feb 2005
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Location: Bournemouth, UK

PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stuartashley wrote:
Quote:
Running at lower heart rates and intensities not only feels easier so that you can run for longer but the main thing is that it teaches your body to burn fat more efficiently. You cannot burn fat as efficiently at higher intensities as simply your burning less and less fat as you work harder. Eventually as you go completely anaerobic you stop burning fat altogether


Mark, sorry to rock your boat, but what you wrote is very very wrong.


stu-b


you can't just put that and not explain - its like showing a lost trailer but then never showing the next episode;)
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JamieMcP




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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this a swim thread Confused
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cm1047




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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

General concensus is LSD runs should be done @ 70%-75% MHR or ~ 1 - 1.5 min/mile slower than potential marathon pace during the base period.

As race day approachs many coaches/plans recommend that during the later half of the long run the pace is gradually increased so that it finishs near marathon pace.

the purpose of the LSD is to;

1. Improve fat burning efficiency
2. Concentrate on aerobic NRG system development
3. Build the power generated from the ST muscle fibres
4. Develop muscular strenght (time on your feet).

Running it too fast means that you are more likely too;

1. use more anaerobic nrg (particulary in the second half) and thus reduce effectiveness of the run on training your aerobic system.
2. overload the ST fibres too quickly and recuit FT (which don't have much endurance) and thus reduce the training effectiveness on the ST fibres.

Just because you can run your LSD faster does not mean that you should.
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marktickner




Joined: 05 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 3:12 pm    Post subject: LSD Reply with quote

Sorry Stuart I have to dissagree with your rather flippant comment. If you could explain then I will happily explain myself further.

My expalnation comes from fitness testing over 500 people in over 3 years. The results, from testing and training athletes, we found that just by doing steady / easy training with no real interval work, and keeping their overall weekly volume exactly the same (and in some cases less), the athlete was able to burn more fuel from fat and less from carbs. Thus being able to limit their need for glycogen when training.
Now this can only be a good thing would you not agree... to be able to burn more fat as apposed to carbs when training at a higher heart rate, speed and intensity??

Mark
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tunney




Joined: 12 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark, I think why Stuart was disagreeing with you was over your claim that the amount of fat being burnt decreases as intensity rises. This is incorrect. The percentage of fat being burnt as a proportion of the total amount of engery used does decrease but in fact the actual amount of fat burnt increases.
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Last edited by ... on Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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belch




Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 110

PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stuartashley wrote:
p.s you donít have to train at or above LT to increase it, and you certainly donít have to do intervals either.


Mark I agree with what you have said but I am not sure I understand Stuart's points very well
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