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The truth about Lance... finally?
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Lance raced his career drug-free?
For sure, I'd bet money on it!
35%
 35%  [ 24 ]
Possibly, but not sure. Undecided either way.
27%
 27%  [ 19 ]
Open your eyes - NO WAY!
36%
 36%  [ 25 ]
Total Votes : 68

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bigjimsty




Joined: 22 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:49 am    Post subject: The truth about Lance... finally? Reply with quote

I still can't fully believe Lance was clean throughout his career, and possibly we will never know? Was just having a read of this...

http://xtramsn.co.nz/sport/0,,12021-6946334,00.html

' six of 15 positive results were produced by samples provided by Armstrong. '

' "These are documents. This is an accredited laboratory that found EPO in (Armstrong's) urine from 1999 and it's been matched with forms you signed so if the analysis is right and the forms aren't forgeries you may have something to explain," '

' "You would have to test it and make sure it was reliable but there's evidence given under oath by people who were on the same team who have claimed to have heard Lance admit to all this stuff. '


The slander / battle / quest for truth continues Very Happy Very Happy
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ChrisW




Joined: 22 May 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What, with your report, and this from the BBC - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/6244041.stm - anyone would think that Mr Pound had it in for the Pro Tour or, put another way, an axe to grind?
Whether that is true or not, I for one think that he is doing his arguments no favours whatsoever by his approach.
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user134098




Joined: 29 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's nothing new here, and no smoking gun. The analysis of the 1999 samples was illegal and that means there is no case for LA to answer, but this still hurts LA because the accusations are still out there. The bottom line with any drug test is that the testers need to follow an agreed procedure, and if they don't the results are thrown out.

The evidence under oath that I know of was from Frankie Andreu's wife. Frankie admitted drug use last year, so he's not very credible.

The jury's still out for me, but I think I'm more cynical than most. Since I don't think we'll ever know conclusively that he cheated, Innocent until proven guilty means that I regard him to be innocent.
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markie r




Joined: 07 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i will stand by what i said in the summer of last year-
in my opinion, i doubt if the tour de france has ever been won by a clean athlete.

obviously i have no proof of this.
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Last edited by markie r on Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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ChrisW




Joined: 22 May 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

markie r wrote:
...in my opinion, i doubt if the tour de france has never been won by a clean athlete....


you mean "ever won"?
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markie r




Joined: 07 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CJ wrote:
markie r wrote:
...in my opinion, i doubt if the tour de france has ever been won by a clean athlete....


you mean "ever won"?


edited accordingly.
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ChrisW




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I so want to believe that LA was clean and did it the right way, but the general state of the sport suggests otherwise.
At the same time, every so often a "superhuman" athlete of his generation comes along - Michael Jordan, Schumacher, Eric Cantona ( Wink ), Babe Ruth - that just maybe LA was that person.
At the moment, I'm on his side and with ian on this one.
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ray




Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

money can cover anything up
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Lycramassif




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do the recent big name bans such as as Heras, Hamilton & Landis all have in common - all at one time members of the same team.

Which specialst one day classics rider from the same team won one of the toughest mountain stages of the Tour a few years back?

I agree with Ray money can cover anything and silence anyone but one day soon one off the bignames will spill the beans!
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Robert




Joined: 15 May 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most tested athlete in history.

In a sport supposedly riddled with drugs, illegal or not, deliberately taken or not.

Only one test proved positive.

Proven illegal and open to contamination.

It's pretty dim for Dick Pound to label him a cheat, isn't it? I'm glad he doesn't work for the police or we'd all be "fitted up" on a tiny speck of evidence, dodgy at best and deliberate perversion of justice at worst.
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zl




Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dick Pound never does shut up does he? The independent report that is refered to makes interesting reading, it was on the website of which every cycling body commissioned it, especially when it comes to the role DP had in the whole process.

There is also enough information to work out the names of at least two of the other possible sample but isn't it funny no one seems to spreading their names around.
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Morg




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm afraid I have a very simplistic view of this issue.

Is there any actually damning evidence that proves without a shadow of a doubt that illicit substances were taken?

If not, then he is innocent.

Saying things along the lines of "C'mon, look at what he did, he had to be taking stuff" Or "Just because they haven't proved it yet doesn't mean he is innocent" is a ridiculous and spurious argument.

The law is quite simple, it has to be proved, it has not been proved he is innocent, why are we having this debate? Evil or Very Mad Mad
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markie r




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

an opinion doesn't have to be based on anything though. so we can speculate as to whether we think he has or has not doped, but of course, technically because he has never been found guilty of doping, he remains officially innocent.
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Morg




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I accept that,

However, opinion of this sort on a public forum could leave you open to legal action if opinions are quoted that have no substance or background evidence to support what is being said.

Just be careful

I'm just saying
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kemptonslim




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The trouble with drug taking in sport is that if one is caught doing it, it tars all athletes in that sport. If somebody was taking a performance-enhancing drug and was beaten by a superior athlete, the superior athlete is tarred, no matter if he's clean or taking drugs. Which is what has happened to Lance.

I believe it's this particular can of worms that has caused the Operation Puerto to stay away from the footballers implicated in Dr. Fuentes' dossier. They really don't want to tar football with the drug thing when, in order to get the scalps that make them look good as cops and magistrates, they can go after the cyclists, who participate in a sport with an already tarnished reputation.

I know that's conspiracy theorizing, but I have yet to hear a plausible explanation why it's only the cyclists that have suffered from Operation Puerto.
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