Tri Talk HomepageTri Talk EventsTri Talk ForumsBlogsTri Talk TrainingTri TradeTriPlayerWikiTeam Tri Talk
The truth about Lance... finally?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TriTalk.co.uk Forum Index -> General
View previous topic :: View next topic  

Lance raced his career drug-free?
For sure, I'd bet money on it!
35%
 35%  [ 24 ]
Possibly, but not sure. Undecided either way.
27%
 27%  [ 19 ]
Open your eyes - NO WAY!
36%
 36%  [ 25 ]
Total Votes : 68

Author Message
Simon G.




Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 940
Location: Blackpool

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toyota_Crown wrote:
Lance is innocent. the rotten french authorities in particular just have it in for him. erm, probably cos hes not french! poor bloke must be pig sick of all the mud thrown at him.

jeez, living legend and he gets treated like this Exclamation


Agreed. Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Simon G.




Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 940
Location: Blackpool

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

P.S. Sorry my last two posts weren't very constructive - but I'm close to 400 now and I've had 3 cans of Boddies. Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Etruscan_Tim




Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 2267
Location: Phasianidae, Galliformes

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert wrote:
younggun wrote:
Robert wrote:
Belief aside, which is subjective, look at the legal process, which is objective. He's not been tested positive and, even if the evidence were equivocal the benefit of the doubt is with the defendant. That's a basic forensic tenet.


It won't be a test result or evidence when the truth finally comes out, it'll be the people talking. When people get old they tend to like to tell the truth before they go or if the athlete dies young then they tell the truth for the good of others - this is why we know about what happened in cycling in the 50s/60s/70s... So when we say the truth will eventually come out, we don't mean a drugs test or an operation puerto type investigation, we mean by people talking. When time has eroded the self interests away.

For me the real question here is not whether we declare him guilty (clearly we can't do that) but whether we continue to idolise him when the balance of probabilities is pretty firmly in one favour.


You obviously trust people's word far more than factual evidence.

I don't - people make mistakes, the evidence is what it is

(NB - its interpretation, by people, is also open to mistake).

You say the balance of probabilities is firmly in one favour.... but that's just your view of the balance. Again, this is subjective, open to interpretation, etc. etc.

I don't idolise anyone - that's a sign of the celebrity culture in the UK - but I do respect their efforts until proven otherwise.


Conclusive proof is very hard to come by.

For example, Landis and WADA/the TdF organisers will be slinging mud at one another for a few years to come, and we, the onlookers, will only gain insight by figuring things out ourselves.

I'll give you another instance where the likely situation was obvious but it was not proven. Michelle Smith won 3 gold (plus a bronze) in swimming for Ireland in the '96 olympics. Two years later she was found to have tampered with a sample during an out-of-competition test. She was rightly banned, and retired from competitive swimming. Now by your definition, we can't say that she took drugs; but as an outsider looking, it seems very likely she did.

Every case has it own merits and those must be analysed differently to others. Proof in one sport for one person may not mean proof in another for a different sport for another person. It would be better if it did, but it's just not that simple.
_________________
The antioxidant myth
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mikemcg




Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 654
Location: Northampton(ish)

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know what?

I don't really care. Haven't read most of the last 8 pages, there aren't drugs that can put you THAT far ahead of your competition is there?

I love pro cycling despite the good & bad stuff in it!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
putt putt




Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 1713

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's a good point Mike

and you know something else...................I do my thing (struggle to break 3 hrs for a marathon, do 11hrs something for an IM......etc - I train hard and try and break my targets for personal satisfaction)

and they do their thing.............and I am tired of being saddened by the latest disclosure. It's (TdF) probably a level playing field anyway........look what happens when extremely talented guys dont particpate.......eg Boardman.........they get no-where. Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ianmcl




Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 10736

PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikemcg wrote:
there aren't drugs that can put you THAT far ahead of your competition is there?
Depends on your definition of that. Winning 7 tours is one thing, but if you look at it as winning 100-hour events by 5 mins then it looks different. Still, I'm just spinning your speculation with speculation of my own.
It's all getting quite religious.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kevfvstri




Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 1583

PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the mans clean!!
Smile a champ in my eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
45andfittodrop




Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 32
Location: cambridge

PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course Armstrong took epo! Just because the tests are inadmissable that is only because they are retrospective. Drug use has been virtually universal, sadly, in the T de F, so he is still probably one of the greatest.. mind you he did bugger all the rest of the year, wheras most of his contampararies competed throughout the season. So it was easier to peak for him.
Look at his cadence on the mountains. Hard to believe he's clean but his lawyers are very powerful and he has the backing of the American people due to his fight with cancer.

We all need heroes but why not pick someone a bit more virtuous steve redgrave, roger federa, paula redcliff, etc, or me........!! Now wheres that iced bun.......
_________________
Started to train last year, bought cervelo p3 dura-ace. Overtrained,spent 3months off with pneumonia, broke wrist in Nov,1st time back on or rather off bike! Looking forward to my 1st event-very motivated!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
robertquantrell




Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 1645
Location: Herts

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just to come out blazing I have to say I think Lance is somewhere next to god when it comes to cycling and the TDF, he inspires me and his bike riding inspires me,

i get goose-bumps watching the youtube clip of him passing Ullrich on Alpe Duez,

But do i think he was clean his whole career? Not a chance.

Before the EPO test was introduced drug use in cycling was endemic, after Festina and the EPO test was introduced then i believe drug use started to taper off, and plenty of money was spent in serious anti-dope test procedures,

So yes, Armstrong may well have won his 7 tours clean, he was tested repeatedly and passed each time,

But before 96? His World champs win, his TDF stage wins?

At a time when EPO use was rife?

just MHO obv
_________________
Going Short
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
markie r




Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 12911

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i reckon lance is innocent, as inoocent as OJ simpson.
_________________
ffs I don't actually live under a bridge in Norway.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
younggun




Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 4443
Location: Purf, Orstrayleeahh

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just found this old thread - fascinating to read it back now 10 years later - especially seeing as I copped some stick at the time from Morg et-al. Smile
_________________
My blog about giving up the desk job and becoming a full-time coach or sports professional : www.adamyoungblog.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hammerer




Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 16076
Location: Right Next Door To Hell

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome back!. Such a shame we have to go through this all again with one of our own and the same polarised opinions.
_________________
Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 13620
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, most of TT backed the wrong horse then...
_________________
www.appliedtri.co.uk Tri and Du coaching

www.naturalrunningform.co.uk Natural Running Form Coach

2017 Training Camps http://www.appliedtri.co.uk/training-camps/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Gus




Joined: 07 Sep 2007
Posts: 2129
Location: Freezing my nads off in Aberdoom

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fascinating knowing the truth, then looking retrospectively at how these things were argued so forcefully by observers at the time.

'No smoke without fire' seems to be one lesson.

At the risk of turning the topic in a different direction, I've always wondered about Usain Bolt. A hero to so many (including myself) but dreading one day a 'truth' coming out that shatters that status.
_________________
BLOG now updating again!
In a world where I feel so small, I can't stop thinking big...

My 15 minutes of fame
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 1797
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus wrote:
Fascinating knowing the truth, then looking retrospectively at how these things were argued so forcefully by observers at the time.

'No smoke without fire' seems to be one lesson.

At the risk of turning the topic in a different direction, I've always wondered about Usain Bolt. A hero to so many (including myself) but dreading one day a 'truth' coming out that shatters that status.


http://www.expressandstar.com/news/emergency-services/2017/02/25/firefighters-rush-to-wolverhampton-boots-but-find-smoke-without-fire/

So you've learned the wrong lesson.
_________________
Iron '16 14:30:49
Half Iron '16 5:53:44
Olympic '16 3:18:18 '15 3:33:05, '13 3:36:00
Sprint '16 1:17:03, '14 1:40:13, '13 2:01:07
Half Mara '16 2:04:32, '14 2:07:11
10 Mile TT '16 26:30
Trail 10K '16 54:01 '13 54:46
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TriTalk.co.uk Forum Index -> General All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Page 8 of 9
  Share
 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum





Home | About TT | Privacy Policy | Terms and Conditions | Advertising | Contact TT
Copyright ©2003-2015 TriTalk®.co.uk. All rights reserved.