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Thoughts On Training 'At The Right Level For You', Pt 2.
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younggun




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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stu,

I don't think you should be spending much proper training time in L1 (it really is recovery pace) and knowing you as I do, I doubt that your are...

Being a high beater it's possible %HRmax levels aren't very accurate for you. You could try calculating with Karvonen (HR range) to see whether it gives more workable zones? :

%HR (karvonen)
L1 <65% recovery and warming up / down
L2 65-75% long steady endurance / aerobic rides
L3 75-82% aerobic power development, long intervals or tempo rides
L4 82-89% lactate threshold training, medium length intervals or racing
L5 89-94% above threshold training, short intervals and short races

I notice that Coggan defines the levels against %LT HR (of course you need to know your LT HR accurately to do that but you could estimate it as your Oly HR). He says L2 is 69-83% LT HR.
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Rok




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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok.

Looks like Friel Zones which i have been using are very different to the karvonen zones you mention here.

Need to recalibrate myself ! ! ! !

Not sure where i stand at the mo. Only that my IM effort was upper L2 karvonen.
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younggun




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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rok wrote:
Only that my IM effort was upper L2 karvonen.
That's good - it could be a touch higher into lower L3 for someone of your cycling ability but you did pace things because of the stomach problems so that ties up.
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younggun




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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to clarify the zones:

The zones above are the definitions most widely used (i.e. L1 recovery, L2 steady, L3 tempo, L4 threshold etc). I'm not sure of their exact history but they were the BCF zones and are used most widely throughout sports science and coaching. They are also the basis and are equivalent in Coggan's power levels which should be the future. There are some other systems around (e.g. Friel) which only serve to confuse as far as I can see. Gordo invented "aerobic threshold" (aaarrgghh!) which really means nothing, he'd have been better off merely typing L2.

For any system of levels/zones you can work things out in RPE, %HR, Karvonen, %LT HR or Watts from a power meter. I would say that order also represents ascending accuracy... if your zones don't seem to make sense in training (i.e. they appear too hard or too easy) then I'd consider calculating them in a different way.
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wiganer




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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

always worth a bump this thread is
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caesar




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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wiganer wrote:
always worth a bump this thread is


Yep, thanks Adam, this has been very helpful. Not sure if this has been linked elsewhere, but the spreadsheet downloadable from the first post here:

http://www.cyclingforums.com/showthread.php?t=339229

shows various zone ranges for Coggan, Friel, BCF etc. The spreadsheet itself is here:

http://www.cyclingforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5646
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lonestar




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

of course his is a question and not a criticism but how come all but one of the bike sessions is on a turbo trainer? I personally use a spinning bike for turbo sessions (intervals) so have little measure of cadence or heart rate apart from RPE type measures.
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lonestar




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok Im gonna try a similar plan but with a few differences:

Monday - AM - Swim sustained speed set - PM - 60min Interval run

Tuesday - PM - 90min Ride hill

Wednesday - AM - Technique Swim - PM - Running Club - 60mins ish

Thursday - PM 60min Bike Time Trial. Core conditioning 60mins (possibly drop). Coached Swim Session 60mins.

Friday - AM - Swim Long sets - PM - Running Hill Intervals of a mile to 60mins.

Saturday - 3 hour Long Ride + weight training (or done sunday but means no rest day!)

Sunday - Rest or Ride (if not done saturday)

Bike can turn into a turbo session in the week.

Swimming - 3.5 hours
Bike - 5.5 hours
Running - 3 hours +
Conditioning - 2hours

Total 12-14 hours (if strength training not done)

ANy thoughts?
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........................




Joined: 07 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lonestar wrote:
ok Im gonna try a similar plan but with a few differences:

Monday - AM - Swim sustained speed set - PM - 60min Interval run

Tuesday - PM - 90min Ride hill

Wednesday - AM - Technique Swim - PM - Running Club - 60mins ish

Thursday - PM 60min Bike Time Trial. Core conditioning 60mins (possibly drop). Coached Swim Session 60mins.

Friday - AM - Swim Long sets - PM - Running Hill Intervals of a mile to 60mins.

Saturday - 3 hour Long Ride + weight training (or done sunday but means no rest day!)

Sunday - Rest or Ride (if not done saturday)

Bike can turn into a turbo session in the week.

Swimming - 3.5 hours
Bike - 5.5 hours
Running - 3 hours +
Conditioning - 2hours

Total 12-14 hours (if strength training not done)

ANy thoughts?


2 hours strength training seems a lot. What distance are you training for?
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iainm




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

good bump. i have bookmarked this and will check it out in more detail when i start training again in november!
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lonestar




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 hours strength training seems a lot. What distance are you training for?[/quote]

olympic, its more an hour or so in the gym doign actual weight training and the other hour is a coached conditioning session (of an hour) before my coached swim session
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younggun




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lonestar wrote:
of course his is a question and not a criticism but how come all but one of the bike sessions is on a turbo trainer? I personally use a spinning bike for turbo sessions (intervals) so have little measure of cadence or heart rate apart from RPE type measures.
If your position is good on the spin bike then there's no reason you can't use it as a turbo substitute - it may be better, the inertia tends to be a lot higher on them.

You can do those sessions on the road too - tends to be tricky to arrange the right sort of course. I like to specify a session 'perfectly' and then you can adapt it for the road if you like...
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Love-Tubs




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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve always had difficulties with ‘Levels’. My turbo sessions always go like this; decide how long I’m gonna be on it, then attempt to ‘ride’ as close to race-pace as I can.

Out on the bike, when possible (let’s not go there again), I tend to say to myself…Ok, take it nice and easy. But nearly always end up slogging hard up the hills and ‘slipping’ into faster phases when terrain allows it.

Pants really, how can I change…don’t rush, I’ll not have chance to train for the next few years anyway Crying or Very sad
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younggun




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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love-Tubs wrote:
Pants really, how can I change…don’t rush, I’ll not have chance to train for the next few years anyway Crying or Very sad
Pace judgement on the bike can be very deceptive anyway. You might think you're working hard on a solo ride, but maybe you're not. A power meter would really help...
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Bird




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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I'm looking at the 10h/wk oly/sprint training, how would I incorporate some bricks into that? Is it just as simple as sticking the shorter runs onto the end of a turbo session?
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