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The sub 3 hour marathon training thread
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Little Miss Happy




Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 787
Location: East Midlands

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ginger - Sunday wasn't preventable because you didn't know however if it happens again because you haven't committed to and completed your rehab you deserve everything you get! There you go - motivation:-)

A little more seriously I ran off my hamstrings for many years until having to have a whole three months with only necessary walking (never mind running) whilst they recovered from the chronic strain. There were lots of glute strengthening exercises (which I did religiously as many times a day as I could get away with laying on the floor to do so) and running rehab - since which time the problem hasn't recurred. It's not easy but it makes sense. Stick with it.

Saw the physio yesterday (she's going to be able to retire soon I'm sure) and she says that the bursa under my kneecap is inflamed which is what she thought would happen if I ran on it. A shame this is my 'good' knee! As you will all appreciate I'm dying to get back out running but as I can't walk without a limp in the mornings (it does seem to get better as the overnight swelling goes down and it loosens up) I'm not sure when that's going to be.
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 1137
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tales of woe..

no injuries for me (despite 9 hours a day at my desk) but the DOMS i suffered from sunday were the worst i ever had. 9 miles of struggles will do that i guess.
Still miffed i blew up so badly tbh.. I think i overdid it in days 14-7 of taper, snowboarding everyday and 2 unnecessarily tough but fun runs in the mountains,then i wasnt well last week, the sunshine on the day certainly affected me.. as did the crowded first 10 miles.. i didnt realise the blue/green starts had a 90s head start, i did think it was even busier than usual. Loads of excuses.. maybe i'm just not as quick as i thought... i'll be TTing a 5k and 10k in the next month just to see where i'm at.
That was, in hindsight, a mistake... not racing in the build up...

I think i need to reintroduce swimming to my training to get some balance but the plan is to race a bit more x-country and shorter stuff this year (i joined a new club) with a pop at Brighton next year but maybe Chelmsford in the autumn....
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Grifter




Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 607
Location: Treading water

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm getting a sense of deja vu! Didn't we all crumble a year or so ago and realise that introducing strength and conditioning was at least part of the answer???
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grifter wrote:
I'm getting a sense of deja vu! Didn't we all crumble a year or so ago and realise that introducing strength and conditioning was at least part of the answer???


it could certainly be, but no more so that appropriate training in general...I am still amazed by how much running you guys do in training...
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JeffB




Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 1021
Location: Middlesbrough

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerbongo wrote:

Basically my physio told me my quads are too strong for my body and sitting at a desk for 7 hours a day has played havoc with my body. Mix in the big mileage and it just makes everything worse. My pelvis was basically twisted an locke dinto place by ridiculously tight hip flexors, which stretched the ITB which aggravated the knee. This was all compounded by overworked, tight quads ... which is why they failed so early in the race, and took so long to recover (today is the first day i can walk properly).


Got told something similar when I went about my abs\groin problem a few weeks ago. My right pelvis was pretty much locked and moving as one and causing things like my stomach to get overworked and pulled.

If you find time I've had benefits from Pilates\Yoga but they are the first thing you drop when time gets tight.

Like yourself sitting at a desk for 7+ hours per day doesn't help.

The physio said if I was doing a more balanced Tri program with biking & swimming it would probably cause less problems as you are working other muscle groups so less reliance on things like the quads.

One last thing I saw was people suggesting sitting on a swiss ball at work, gives a bit of a core workout but you might get some odd looks off the boss!

Jeff
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chickenboy




Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 1634

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Grifter wrote:
I'm getting a sense of deja vu! Didn't we all crumble a year or so ago and realise that introducing strength and conditioning was at least part of the answer???


it could certainly be, but no more so that appropriate training in general...I am still amazed by how much running you guys do in training...


i think i should have upped mine. 26miles avg in the 13 week run up to london. I've been doing turbo sessions and swimming but maybe i should try a bit harder Smile
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenboy wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Grifter wrote:
I'm getting a sense of deja vu! Didn't we all crumble a year or so ago and realise that introducing strength and conditioning was at least part of the answer???


it could certainly be, but no more so that appropriate training in general...I am still amazed by how much running you guys do in training...


i think i should have upped mine. 26miles avg in the 13 week run up to london. I've been doing turbo sessions and swimming but maybe i should try a bit harder Smile


possibly, but averages don't tell the whole story...i would guess my last sub 3 was on a similarly low average (low 30s)....
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chickenboy




Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 1634

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's interesting. I probably won't up my average for the next mara, (Berlin), I like to protect my achilles. The cross training seems to help.
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Mark C




Joined: 15 Apr 2010
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Location: Norfolk

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I plan to have another crack at the elusive sub 3 hours at Abington this October.

Previous best is 3 hours 2 mins at Amsterdam in 2010. ( Average mileage for that was 43 over 17 weeks.)

I've recently run a 93 minute half and a 39 minute 10 k with weekly mileage currently at 30-35. ( Plus some swimming and cycling.)

From previous attempts anything above 50 miles per week and I've tended to pick up injuries.

What schedules would people recommend for an 18-20 week build up on this sort of mileage ?
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Little Miss Happy




Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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Location: East Midlands

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't advise on a schedule I'm afraid Mark as I don't follow one - I just run as many easy miles as I can and I've found that by only running easy that is a lot more than I though. Your mileage is quite low to go sub 3.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark C wrote:


From previous attempts anything above 50 miles per week and I've tended to pick up injuries.
?


often the case if the prior conditioning isn't sufficient to maintain the volume and or intensity...
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little Miss Happy wrote:
Can't advise on a schedule I'm afraid Mark as I don't follow one - I just run as many easy miles as I can and I've found that by only running easy that is a lot more than I though. Your mileage is quite low to go sub 3.


is it possible that with a structure to the training you could reduce your volume?
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Little Miss Happy




Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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Location: East Midlands

PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've consistently broken whenever I've tried to do any speed work JC apart from hill reps - and my knee consultant has now told me to avoid hills (which I've had to do for the last two years following my bike crash). I like running lots and I've made the time to do so which means that I don't have any real incentive to cut the miles and try something different, especially as this seems to be working and that might mean that I'd end up injured and unable to run for a while.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little Miss Happy wrote:
I've consistently broken whenever I've tried to do any speed work JC apart from hill reps - and my knee consultant has now told me to avoid hills (which I've had to do for the last two years following my bike crash). I like running lots and I've made the time to do so which means that I don't have any real incentive to cut the miles and try something different, especially as this seems to be working and that might mean that I'd end up injured and unable to run for a while.


not sure I mentioned speed work, although higher intensity is generally a successful substitute for excessive volume. Interesting that hill reps were positive and speed work negative; runners on hill reps often display improved running form uphill if not always downhill - there's a lesson in there somewhere...
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Little Miss Happy




Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What did you mean by structure then JC?
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