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The sub 3 hour marathon training thread
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 1151
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Still learning' sounds familiar.....

I have switched to London, will be running for a local charity. Much easier logistically for me and will be my 5th VLM. My race didnt go too well at the weekend, as some of you have seen on strava. No disaster but feeling comfortable at 9 miles i let myself slip off the back of a group (most of whom i am in and around/ ahead of in x-country) just before a turn into 2 miles of headwind.. which i ran alone. Blew up and struggled home in 37th... still a good work out though.
One thing i have learnt is that trying to fit racing into a marathon training schedule just doesnt work for me. Some people seem to turn up at parkrun after a big week and bang out the same times as they can on an easy week... but not me. I thought an easy 6 days would give me some necessary rest and adaptation time but even an easy week of just 1 x steady 10km didnt leave me fresh enough for sunday. I do have a few races lined up between now and April 22nd but i'm going to be very careful not to lose sight of the big picture this year... a new HM pb is going to be pretty pointless if it ultimately mucks up 2 weeks of training.
12 weeks on sunday....
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YKK




Joined: 23 Oct 2011
Posts: 269
Location: North&West london

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

twhat wrote:
'Still learning' sounds familiar.....
One thing i have learnt is that trying to fit racing into a marathon training schedule just doesnt work for me. Some people seem to turn up at parkrun after a big week and bang out the same times as they can on an easy week... but not me. I thought an easy 6 days would give me some necessary rest and adaptation time but even an easy week of just 1 x steady 10km didnt leave me fresh enough for sunday. I do have a few races lined up between now and April 22nd but i'm going to be very careful not to lose sight of the big picture this year... a new HM pb is going to be pretty pointless if it ultimately mucks up 2 weeks of training.
12 weeks on sunday....


I find the only time I can run fast is at a race, Hence I use Park Run as much as I can, the plan this year was to do a race most weekends from mid Feb, maybe not balls out in all of them, but for me it is the best way for me to run at a pace.

Alas, all my plans are now shot as I have jiggered my calf, deep in the calf and it does not seem to want to heal. Ars.

As an aside, last year, remarkably, I pb'd 6 days after my pb at London! And it is still my pb and haven't got within 10 seconds of it since, despite being significantly more rested.
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1349
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same as twhat for me.

I think it's as much mental as it is physical, but i just can't not race a race. And that means burying myself, so i tend to schedule 1 maybe 2 (say 10km and a half) in my build up, but with a mini taper. It certainly takes a lot out of me, so i know the week after will have to be gentle.

To be fair, i'm always like that, mara training or not. I have clubmates that race week in, week out. But i just don't think i'm wired up to do the same. My body would be a wreck!
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 1151
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

YKK wrote:
twhat wrote:
'Still learning' sounds familiar.....
One thing i have learnt is that trying to fit racing into a marathon training schedule just doesnt work for me. Some people seem to turn up at parkrun after a big week and bang out the same times as they can on an easy week... but not me. I thought an easy 6 days would give me some necessary rest and adaptation time but even an easy week of just 1 x steady 10km didnt leave me fresh enough for sunday. I do have a few races lined up between now and April 22nd but i'm going to be very careful not to lose sight of the big picture this year... a new HM pb is going to be pretty pointless if it ultimately mucks up 2 weeks of training.
12 weeks on sunday....


I find the only time I can run fast is at a race, Hence I use Park Run as much as I can, the plan this year was to do a race most weekends from mid Feb, maybe not balls out in all of them, but for me it is the best way for me to run at a pace.

Alas, all my plans are now shot as I have jiggered my calf, deep in the calf and it does not seem to want to heal. Ars.

As an aside, last year, remarkably, I pb'd 6 days after my pb at London! And it is still my pb and haven't got within 10 seconds of it since, despite being significantly more rested.


Thats bonkers. Fairplay. What does a 2h45 marathoner run a (subsequent) 5k in these days out of interest ?
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YKK




Joined: 23 Oct 2011
Posts: 269
Location: North&West london

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

17:43. This was at Finsbury Park, which is lumpy so perhaps 30 secs slower than a flat one and 45 slower than the track?

But I don't think I am good at hurting myself top end, but I am seem to be ok at a long drawn out annihilation Smile
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
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Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finsbury park i think (was led to believe) is indeed worth about 45 secs vs flat so 17 dead would probably sound fair. I used to run and marshall pretty regularly at Highbury fields but never did run Finsbury Park, despite intending to do so. Unfortunately i'm not local anymore... but i have a nice choice of parkruns again.
Your marathon vs 5k compares far more favourably than my own... although that far from unusual !!
London again for you this year right? Are you on the tritalk sub3strava group ?
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flem




Joined: 26 Jun 2012
Posts: 294
Location: Leamington Spa

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Throwing my hat in the ring for a sub 3 attempt, not until October this year though but I do have a few races lined up in the next few months to keep me ticking over

Do people tend to follow set training plans or borrow bits from here and there and construct their own??

Good luck to all of you attempting a sub three!
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1349
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flem wrote:
Throwing my hat in the ring for a sub 3 attempt, not until October this year though but I do have a few races lined up in the next few months to keep me ticking over

Do people tend to follow set training plans or borrow bits from here and there and construct their own??

Good luck to all of you attempting a sub three!


That's the one for me. 2 x mara attempts, both on programmes i wrote myself, both very different styles. 2 x very different outcomes!! Very Happy
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 16547
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I have a few months off work this Spring, I'm wondering if I should finally do a standalone marathon. Nothing big, no specific training plan, just a few long runs. Wouldn't be going for sub-3 as I'd have to concentrate on that, but I reckon GFA should be a realistic challenge. So, are there any low-key flatish marathons not a millions miles away from Bristol?

Looks like the Newport Marathon on 29 April fits the bill. Hmm.
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
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Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerbongo wrote:
flem wrote:
Throwing my hat in the ring for a sub 3 attempt, not until October this year though but I do have a few races lined up in the next few months to keep me ticking over

Do people tend to follow set training plans or borrow bits from here and there and construct their own??

Good luck to all of you attempting a sub three!


That's the one for me. 2 x mara attempts, both on programmes i wrote myself, both very different styles. 2 x very different outcomes!! Very Happy


Yep me too. It has to be that way, a generic plan is never going to fit in with my life. Most sub 3 plans are incredibly daunting, to me at least, in terms of mileage. Probably why i dont translate well from 5k - marathon. Going ok so far this year.. 4 weeks in to the new year.. 65k,65k, 45k(inc 15mile race), 77k and the legs are feeling good. I'll probably peak at 90k/week in march and this only twice i think.
I'm focusing on running my marathon paced stuff on a saturday with long easy run on a sunday. Think i got that from Hal Higdon. The rest is fairly standard. 1 interval session of sorts, 1 double day adding up to 20k ish. It was quite satisfying to complete a 'perfect' week last week... the hard bit is repeating it x10.....
Welcome to thread chaps... good luck !
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
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Location: Devon

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
As I have a few months off work this Spring, I'm wondering if I should finally do a standalone marathon. Nothing big, no specific training plan, just a few long runs. Wouldn't be going for sub-3 as I'd have to concentrate on that, but I reckon GFA should be a realistic challenge. So, are there any low-key flatish marathons not a millions miles away from Bristol?

Looks like the Newport Marathon on 29 April fits the bill. Hmm.


Taunton on the 8th April - that's not a terrible course. Pretty low key (think it's 2 x laps of the half course)
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerbongo wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
As I have a few months off work this Spring, I'm wondering if I should finally do a standalone marathon. Nothing big, no specific training plan, just a few long runs. Wouldn't be going for sub-3 as I'd have to concentrate on that, but I reckon GFA should be a realistic challenge. So, are there any low-key flatish marathons not a millions miles away from Bristol?

Looks like the Newport Marathon on 29 April fits the bill. Hmm.


Taunton on the 8th April - that's not a terrible course. Pretty low key (think it's 2 x laps of the half course)


Ah, I did wonder if that was still going! I did the Half a couple of times in the 90s. Didn't PB there (that was Great West Run) but I'd say it's probably the flattest HM I've done; but that does mean you have to be on the gas all the way!
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
gingerbongo wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
As I have a few months off work this Spring, I'm wondering if I should finally do a standalone marathon. Nothing big, no specific training plan, just a few long runs. Wouldn't be going for sub-3 as I'd have to concentrate on that, but I reckon GFA should be a realistic challenge. So, are there any low-key flatish marathons not a millions miles away from Bristol?

Looks like the Newport Marathon on 29 April fits the bill. Hmm.


Taunton on the 8th April - that's not a terrible course. Pretty low key (think it's 2 x laps of the half course)


Ah, I did wonder if that was still going! I did the Half a couple of times in the 90s. Didn't PB there (that was Great West Run) but I'd say it's probably the flattest HM I've done; but that does mean you have to be on the gas all the way!


Yeah it's not Manchester/Eton Dorney flat but it's probably the best you're gonna get in the area.

Alternatively just trade it in for the Exe to Axe on the same weekend!! It's only 22 miles, and pretty flat Twisted Evil
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do people find that for longer races (HM+), a billiard-table profile is actually harder than something lightly undulating?
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, i certainly do. I find it really hammers my knees and hips, like they're just grounding to pulp. Using the exact same muscles in the same pattern for god knows how many steps. Much nicer to find something that breaks the rhythm a little.
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