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The sub 3 hour marathon training thread
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JeffB




Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 1201
Location: Middlesbrough

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes the change in pace helps, Manchester was flat but twisty in places as you went through some housing estates.

Probably not that low key though, but it wasn't a bad race. You had to watch out for the potholes in a few places though.

Jeff
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 1216
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find i tend to outperform on hilly events vs flat. Not in terms of time obviously but vs other runners. Maybe because i'm a relative lightweight at 66kg.
Thats not really what you asked though.... i definitely find the mental break up helps on undulating courses... i tend to just get it done rather than constantly check pace. A drag strip generally requires minimal deviation from a set pace and i think that concentration in itself probably adds to fatigue!
GPS tech has a lot to answer for....
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Buzz_




Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 311

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My memory of Taunton, albeit from 20+ years ago was a flat course with an annoying hill at mile 12 that scuppered any thoughts of a PB, even with a mostly downhill mile 13. While it was an annoyance on the half, those on the full found a hill at mile 25 to be a killer. That said, the course has probably changed in the intervening decades.

My half PB is from a very flat course (Guernsey). It was so flat that any slight incline was a relief. But no denying it was quick.
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YKK




Joined: 23 Oct 2011
Posts: 287
Location: North&West london

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

twhat wrote:

London again for you this year right? Are you on the tritalk sub3strava group ?


I am theoretically running London again, (ummm, I also have a place at Brighton the week before!, (it was free for "elite" sub 2:45 types) so I could not resit the chance to call myself "elite". However its timing and the logistical hassle means I probably wont do it).

I am in the sub 3 strava group, but have a jiggered calf, which is only just coming back at the moment so your strava segments are safe at the moment Smile

Again I seem to be the opposite to most, I train on flat, I always seek flat, I love the metronomic(sp?) consistent pace. Hills just get in the way! However having said that I knew the only place I could qualify for the 1/2 IM worlds was Exmoor due to its hilly nature, so I am not to bad on them if they are there Smile
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 1216
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there anybody else attempting sub 3 this spring then?

Training has gone pretty well this year, although early March man flu(s) and the beast from the East threw a small spanner in the works. Cancelled races (twice) means i havent really tested myself aside from training but with 3 good solid 20 mile+ runs in the bank and some good marathon paced work i'm feeling confident. Ive had a few implosions at the end of some runs but i've generally been able to explain why (training volume).

One question... with a wedding this weekend and family holiday over Easter weekend i'm struggling to fit my final long run in before the 3rd or 4th April. Thats 18/19 days before London. I'd really like to push it a bit on this run.. was thinking 15k steady build, 15k target marathon pace (circa 6.45/mile), 2-4k cool down. I'd hopefully be 3-4 days rested coming into it. Do you think thats pushing it too fast, too far too close to London ?
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 15374
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

twhat wrote:
Is there anybody else attempting sub 3 this spring then?

Training has gone pretty well this year, although early March man flu(s) and the beast from the East threw a small spanner in the works. Cancelled races (twice) means i havent really tested myself aside from training but with 3 good solid 20 mile+ runs in the bank and some good marathon paced work i'm feeling confident. Ive had a few implosions at the end of some runs but i've generally been able to explain why (training volume).

One question... with a wedding this weekend and family holiday over Easter weekend i'm struggling to fit my final long run in before the 3rd or 4th April. Thats 18/19 days before London. I'd really like to push it a bit on this run.. was thinking 15k steady build, 15k target marathon pace (circa 6.45/mile), 2-4k cool down. I'd hopefully be 3-4 days rested coming into it. Do you think thats pushing it too fast, too far too close to London ?


it really depends how quickly you recover...i'd be cautious that close unless you have loads of miles under your belt...the risk/return is too great.

whilst away, you may be better off doing double days with shorter, tempo runs...
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Tupperware




Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 64
Location: Swindon

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

twhat wrote:
Is there anybody else attempting sub 3 this spring then?

Training has gone pretty well this year, although early March man flu(s) and the beast from the East threw a small spanner in the works. Cancelled races (twice) means i havent really tested myself aside from training but with 3 good solid 20 mile+ runs in the bank and some good marathon paced work i'm feeling confident. Ive had a few implosions at the end of some runs but i've generally been able to explain why (training volume).

One question... with a wedding this weekend and family holiday over Easter weekend i'm struggling to fit my final long run in before the 3rd or 4th April. Thats 18/19 days before London. I'd really like to push it a bit on this run.. was thinking 15k steady build, 15k target marathon pace (circa 6.45/mile), 2-4k cool down. I'd hopefully be 3-4 days rested coming into it. Do you think thats pushing it too fast, too far too close to London ?


As mentioned, depends how you recover from long runs. My normal lead-in is a hardish 20miles two weekends before (7/8 April), 13mile the weekend before (13/14 April) and seems to work ok for me.

Are you running from Red GFA?
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 1216
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes indeed ejc.. the risk/reward ratio that close is not really that attractive. I might have a look at trying to do it next week instead, but its going to be harder logistically.

I'm not in GFA this year on account of blowing up spectacularly and walking it in last year. I'll be the guy elbowing his way to the front of pen 1. Its not ideal but i have to try and relax and go with the flow for the first few miles. It might even do me a favour.
I take it you are running then Tupperware ?
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Tupperware




Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 64
Location: Swindon

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I'll be there! Very Happy (assuming my legs hold together)

I have Lanza in May so not really focussed on run training this time around, but training runs have been pretty encouraging so I'll be giving it a bash.

20-mile race this weekend should give me a good idea of where I'm at.
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 1216
Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tupperware wrote:
Yes, I'll be there! Very Happy (assuming my legs hold together)

I have Lanza in May so not really focussed on run training this time around, but training runs have been pretty encouraging so I'll be giving it a bash.

20-mile race this weekend should give me a good idea of where I'm at.


So how'd it go ? I have run envy today.. some massive marathon paced efforts by club mates over the weekend. I ran an easy 10k, went to a wedding, drunk too much (which these days really isnt a lot!!) , didnt run yesterday....
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YKK




Joined: 23 Oct 2011
Posts: 287
Location: North&West london

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twhat - that run sounds too harsh to close to London to me, the old sensible me when I was a sub 3 novice would always aim for my last 20 miler to be 3 weeks out AND if I could hit around 2:30 at a steady pace, I knew I would be in the ball park. All HR would be below marathon HR. I know most people need more of a confidence boost, but that always worked for me.

My hat is in the sub-3 ring. However as I am now non-sensible I think I am aiming for 2 sub 3's in consecutive weekends.

I have achieved 2 with a 2 week gap, but I appreciate this is getting silly.

Also had a non-confidence boosting 1:22 half at the weekend, which I almost gave up at half way. I had major fatigue which I think is down to the 30ish pints consumed the previous week Shocked So I think I am going to go again over Easter to at least get under 1:20.
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 1216
Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw your 1/2 on strava.. Thats a pretty good time considering you felt jaded. 30 pints is a solid week of boozing.. i couldnt run that pace with that much alcohol in my system. I dont know if its age or all the running .. but i had max 7 drinks on saturday, over the course of 9 hours.. felt cr@p sunday and my legs felt dead running 10k this morning. Alcohol and running just doesnt mix, not for me anyway !
I'm starting to doubt myself now.. i think its the lack of racing. I have done a lot of MP work which has felt comfortable all year, and ive done the long runs.... Its seeing club mates smash 20 miles at marathon pace on strava yesterday whilst i'm sitting at home feeling fat and hungover that makes me think i'm miles behind them.
I'm putting a few miles in this week and will be squeezing that last long run in next tuesday with a bit of luck... i need the confidence boost Wink

Whats the 1 and 2 marathon YKK ? I have a Brighton slot as well as London but wont be running Brighton...
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sb20




Joined: 07 Sep 2011
Posts: 902
Location: Beautifull hilly SW Surrey

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will be running Brighton.

Had been aiming for sub 3. But I think 3:05-3:10 is more likely. Man flu and the beasts have not helped with practice events cancelled (the fleet half). I did one 20 miler on the sodding treadmill watching the wolf of wall street!

Ran 20 yesterday in 2:30 but bonked spectacularly at 17 miles and dragged my sorry arse home at 5:50k's. I guess i needed to eat more than one gel.

I cant make my mind up whether to do a slow zone 2 20 miler (3 hours) this weekend so as to get one more long one in and get time on my feet. With a 1:30 1/2 on friday. Thoughs?

See you at Withdean Park maybe?
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 15374
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sb20 wrote:
I will be running Brighton.

Had been aiming for sub 3. But I think 3:05-3:10 is more likely. Man flu and the beasts have not helped with practice events cancelled (the fleet half). I did one 20 miler on the sodding treadmill watching the wolf of wall street!

Ran 20 yesterday in 2:30 but bonked spectacularly at 17 miles and dragged my sorry arse home at 5:50k's. I guess i needed to eat more than one gel.

I cant make my mind up whether to do a slow zone 2 20 miler (3 hours) this weekend so as to get one more long one in and get time on my feet. With a 1:30 1/2 on friday. Thoughs?

See you at Withdean Park maybe?


what for? risk v return is high, particularly as you need to recover from yesterday...
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 1216
Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say its a bit tight for Brighton SB20... thats a full on weekend 2 weeks out...

Best of luck with your race though !
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