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The sub 3 hour marathon training thread
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 1216
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its going to be 20 degrees, that looks nailed on. I'm going to be reining in my ambitions a little. That may even mean looking for 2 x 1h32 halfs. Ive been talking to some clubmates and no one else seems quite as concerned as me... i think they are underestimating the effects of these temperatures...
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1517
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

twhat wrote:
Its going to be 20 degrees, that looks nailed on. I'm going to be reining in my ambitions a little. That may even mean looking for 2 x 1h32 halfs. Ive been talking to some clubmates and no one else seems quite as concerned as me... i think they are underestimating the effects of these temperatures...


The bigger problem is the fact that we have had no decent weather at all over the last few months, so nobody will be acclimatised at all - unless you've been doing heated/sauna type work. This heat is going to catch a LOT of people unaware this year in my opinion, more so than in a normal warm year.

keep on top of your fluids and salts everyone!!!
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 1216
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerbongo wrote:
twhat wrote:
Its going to be 20 degrees, that looks nailed on. I'm going to be reining in my ambitions a little. That may even mean looking for 2 x 1h32 halfs. Ive been talking to some clubmates and no one else seems quite as concerned as me... i think they are underestimating the effects of these temperatures...


The bigger problem is the fact that we have had no decent weather at all over the last few months, so nobody will be acclimatised at all - unless you've been doing heated/sauna type work. This heat is going to catch a LOT of people unaware this year in my opinion, more so than in a normal warm year.

keep on top of your fluids and salts everyone!!!


Will 3 gels (1xtorq, 2x SiS) and lucozade provide enough or do you think i should be looking for some specific salt products?
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sb20




Joined: 07 Sep 2011
Posts: 902
Location: Beautifull hilly SW Surrey

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck all. Sunday will be pretty hot given all the buildings, tarmac, no clouds and thousands of bodies!

I don't know how folk feel about taking Paracetamol.

There is a fair amount of research that suggests it can be effective keeping down temperature during a marathon. In fact when I tore my ACL during the UTMB the doc in Courmayour basically told me to fill me boots and gave me quite large doses. A side effect was i did not melt as badly as I normally would in the 34 degree heat with no shade.

Its fine on the stomach for me.

Re salts - If you take some magnesium (the non laxative version!!) for the next couple of days this will increase your salt levels and also the level of water held in the muscles. Macca writes extensively about this in his book and feels it made a big difference to him at Kona. A couple of salt tablets on Sunday morning should see you through. Its only 3 hours after all!
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1517
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wou;dn't like to say, as i've ever experimented with salt tabs ... but neither have i run a warm mara. I do have the tendency to sweat a lot and cramp though. It was noticeable when i did my trail race a ciuple of weeks ago, when i tried to wing it on a few gels and cramped up badly!
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Tri it man




Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 1277
Location: Byfleet

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like it is warming up. Best wear a hat to try keep cool and douse your head every so often. Keep HR in check in first half.

Anyone spot Tim Donís performance at Boston in terrible conditions. 2.49 after what he has been through is amazing.
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 1216
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tri it man wrote:
Looks like it is warming up. Best wear a hat to try keep cool and douse your head every so often. Keep HR in check in first half.

Anyone spot Tim Donís performance at Boston in terrible conditions. 2.49 after what he has been through is amazing.


I have to be honest i'd take the Boston conditions over the London forecast at the moment... at least it would match my training conditions !!
One of my clubmates ran 2.43 over there.. he's a bit of a hero at the moment and is also running London.... my biggest claim to fame right now is that i managed to outdo him in the last miles of club XC a couple of times this season. Ergo i must be better than Tim Don too...... Wink
Trying to not be too despondent about the heat at the moment, but its very difficult to decide on a strategy. My sensible head says re calibrate for a 3.05 GFA and run a 1h32 half but of course thats not what i trained for. My training buddy thinks i need to ignore the conditions as we often chat away at 2.55 pace.. and he accuses me of looking like i am about to fall asleep running 3hr pace
Very Happy

I think i'm going to (try to) run a steady 1h30 first half and see what ive got in the 2nd half....
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1517
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

twhat wrote:
Tri it man wrote:
Looks like it is warming up. Best wear a hat to try keep cool and douse your head every so often. Keep HR in check in first half.

Anyone spot Tim Donís performance at Boston in terrible conditions. 2.49 after what he has been through is amazing.


I have to be honest i'd take the Boston conditions over the London forecast at the moment... at least it would match my training conditions !!
One of my clubmates ran 2.43 over there.. he's a bit of a hero at the moment and is also running London.... my biggest claim to fame right now is that i managed to outdo him in the last miles of club XC a couple of times this season. Ergo i must be better than Tim Don too...... Wink
Trying to not be too despondent about the heat at the moment, but its very difficult to decide on a strategy. My sensible head says re calibrate for a 3.05 GFA and run a 1h32 half but of course thats not what i trained for. My training buddy thinks i need to ignore the conditions as we often chat away at 2.55 pace.. and he accuses me of looking like i am about to fall asleep running 3hr pace
Very Happy

I think i'm going to (try to) run a steady 1h30 first half and see what ive got in the 2nd half....


go with your original plan but just be hyper aware of any major changes. Check HR, do regular system checks. You're experienced enough to know the difference between slowing down naturally/hitting a tough patch vs being a real victim to the conditions.

Like TiM said, get a (white) hat and chuck water over that at every aid station, don't drown yourself in fluid but keep on top of it. monitor your sweat, be aware of the tell tale white patches, stinging in the eyes, super salty taste etc

Getting almost jealous now!
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YKK




Joined: 23 Oct 2011
Posts: 287
Location: North&West london

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tri it man wrote:
Looks like it is warming up. Best wear a hat to try keep cool and douse your head every so often. Keep HR in check in first half.

Anyone spot Tim Donís performance at Boston in terrible conditions. 2.49 after what he has been through is amazing.


Are you running this year to maintain your streak?

Up to 24 now according to recent BBC weather, (26 tomorrow apparently).
I was not worried about 20 especially as it was only later in the day. 24 though is getting hot though.

Ran a little track session last night, legs handled it, though they are still not recovered from last week, they have about 96 hours left so they best get a move on!
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Andy916




Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 680
Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, pour water on your cap but try to avoid soaking shoes too much (increased blister possibility) and wear nipple plasters. Get a cooling cap or just use the most absorbent one you have. I've got one of these and it works well:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-REALGEAR-XTREME-COOLING-GOLF-CAP-RED-REAL-GEAR/232420089341?epid=1272615108&hash=item361d511dfd:g:SkIAAOSwh-1W2GlT

After suffering on 37C IM Lanza run I followed each poolswim with a 10min sauna, take magnesium (Mag64 and epsom salt baths) and over-dress in training (keep cycle jacket on, zipped up, on a brick run). Have been much better in the heat subsequently.

The fundamental thing is retaining your plasma volume, by conserving salt, which comes from heat adaptation in training. A Cambridge physiologist who runs 2:45 in his late 40s explains ... http://christofschwiening.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/sweat-sweet-is-better-than-salty-for.html
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Tri it man




Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 1277
Location: Byfleet

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YKK wrote:
Tri it man wrote:
Looks like it is warming up. Best wear a hat to try keep cool and douse your head every so often. Keep HR in check in first half.

Anyone spot Tim Donís performance at Boston in terrible conditions. 2.49 after what he has been through is amazing.


Are you running this year to maintain your streak?

Up to 24 now according to recent BBC weather, (26 tomorrow apparently).
I was not worried about 20 especially as it was only later in the day. 24 though is getting hot though.

Ran a little track session last night, legs handled it, though they are still not recovered from last week, they have about 96 hours left so they best get a move on!


My streak ran out years ago. 2014 ran 2.45 then early 2015 I got a hernia so had to have an operation so missed London. 2016 I was in 2.45 shape again and 3 days before London got a virus so had to pull out the day before. Roll on 2017 and I couldn't run properly for around 3 months at start of year due to Achilles tendonitis and only got some running back 4 weeks before. Decided to run for gfa only or wouldn't have bothered. Now 2018 I had over 3months out from Dec to March due to sciatic nerve and piriformis issues so have had to defer. I'm planning on doing 2019 on a #@?# or bust campaign to see if I still have a pb in me at 47. My mate gives me hope as he ran 2.41.00 at Boston on Monday and he is 49.....
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JeffB




Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 1201
Location: Middlesbrough

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm actually not that worried about the heat, other than sunburn, mostly because if I end up walking I won't get hyperthermia!

I do use the sauna quite a bit, and I'm always overdressed when I go out.

Don't really like the cold, not so bad when running but for cycling or triathlon I hate it!

Jeff
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YKK




Joined: 23 Oct 2011
Posts: 287
Location: North&West london

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tri it man wrote:
YKK wrote:
Tri it man wrote:
Looks like it is warming up. Best wear a hat to try keep cool and douse your head every so often. Keep HR in check in first half.

Anyone spot Tim Donís performance at Boston in terrible conditions. 2.49 after what he has been through is amazing.


Are you running this year to maintain your streak?

Up to 24 now according to recent BBC weather, (26 tomorrow apparently).
I was not worried about 20 especially as it was only later in the day. 24 though is getting hot though.

Ran a little track session last night, legs handled it, though they are still not recovered from last week, they have about 96 hours left so they best get a move on!


My streak ran out years ago. 2014 ran 2.45 then early 2015 I got a hernia so had to have an operation so missed London. 2016 I was in 2.45 shape again and 3 days before London got a virus so had to pull out the day before. Roll on 2017 and I couldn't run properly for around 3 months at start of year due to Achilles tendonitis and only got some running back 4 weeks before. Decided to run for gfa only or wouldn't have bothered. Now 2018 I had over 3months out from Dec to March due to sciatic nerve and piriformis issues so have had to defer. I'm planning on doing 2019 on a #@?# or bust campaign to see if I still have a pb in me at 47. My mate gives me hope as he ran 2.41.00 at Boston on Monday and he is 49.....


How frustrating, good to see you still have hope for a pb, also being in my mid 40's I do wonder how many more years I have before I start to slow...

27 today in London apparantly. Ouch.
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Tupperware




Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 64
Location: Swindon

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck anyone marathoning tomorrow. No last minute weather changes so seems it will be a warm one in London 😅😰😥.

Have fun! 😁
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1517
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

... just waiting for the myriad reports now!!
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