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The sub 3 hour marathon training thread
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1659

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say similar. All my distance running "target times" have come from general training and then inferring information from that to establish a target.

When I first went sub 90, that was the target, yet I went 1:25. 90 turned out fairly conservative based on my training. Conversely, my second marathon I set a make or break sub3 target and I exploded for a variety of reasons and went 20mins slower than my first in 3.24.

Picking a somewhat arbitrary time target is a bit of a backwards way of looking at things. Maybe have long term aspirations that will keep you motivated over a few years, but for the next year or so, I would suggest you need to set achievable training goals, be that a progressive ramp in training volume (distance/time/both); more structure in your training; more consistency; whatever; and then off the info obtained from those foundations set some more immediate time based goals.
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
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Location: Devon

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
I'd say similar. All my distance running "target times" have come from general training and then inferring information from that to establish a target.

When I first went sub 90, that was the target, yet I went 1:25. 90 turned out fairly conservative based on my training. Conversely, my second marathon I set a make or break sub3 target and I exploded for a variety of reasons and went 20mins slower than my first in 3.24.

Picking a somewhat arbitrary time target is a bit of a backwards way of looking at things. Maybe have long term aspirations that will keep you motivated over a few years, but for the next year or so, I would suggest you need to set achievable training goals, be that a progressive ramp in training volume (distance/time/both); more structure in your training; more consistency; whatever; and then off the info obtained from those foundations set some more immediate time based goals.


That! Above
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YKK




Joined: 23 Oct 2011
Posts: 290
Location: North&West london

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having a run a few of those sub 3's now I can honestly say I have never followed a plan. No need really.

You need to run a lot and some of it faster than the rest of it. Sounds simple, but that all a training plan is.

Also, I find the only way I can run truly fast (for me) is with a number on my back,so I race quite a bit, even parkruns to get the hr up and legs turning over.

If you have 9 months I would ramp up the running at what ever rate *you* need to do to not get injured, do some races, run a bit more, aim to get up to at least 100k a week. Get a half mara down to around 1:23 - 1:25, then you know you are in the ball park. Then run one and probably fail (most seem to the first time), however all that endurance you can then use to keep building etc...
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goldenboots




Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK time to jump back in this thread and get some targets down. After another year of failed tri training and just about managing to avoid putting on too much weight, I have a bit of motivation to try and get under 3 hours again.

It's now over two years since the one and only time I just managed to blag a 3 hour marathon, and I'm keen to drop this pb (2:59:47) with a bit of actual training.

Blew up trying to chase a 3 hour mara at London last year at about mile 16, then ran about 3:03 as part of the Wings for Life World Run a couple of weeks later. Started this year by getting back on the bike and in to the pool, but never really got my head in to triathlon training again. Did manage to run a disappointing 1:23:xx at the big London half in March but couldnt expect more from the little training I had done. Then managed to sprain BOTH ankles in the space of a couple of weeks in the spring and decided I still didn't enjoy triathlon training in London and pulled out of yet another Ironman.

But now I'm signed up for the Richmond Marathon in September and York Marathon in October. Initially I signed up for Richmond in the hope of snagging a late Boston qualifier for next year but I think it;s actually a week late now, so I will likely treat it as a very long training run 4 weeks before York, or even drop out at halfway or so (annoyingly they won't let me change race distance to the shorter, cheaper half marathon on the same day, despite asking over 4 months in advance). I will treat York as a definite pb attempt.


Have just looked ay my run training from the past 4.5 years (start of 2014 > now). I always knew I was relatively lucky in that I set all pbs on very low run mileage, but never realised just how low it was.....

Some insigh:
-I have only ever run over 100km in a week once - when I ran 133 in 3 days slowly last summer
-I have only ever run over 80kpw 5 times
-Since 2014, I have only ran 50kpw about 15% of the time - this I would suggest for most runners is a staple non-training week, but obviously not for me
- My average weekly mileage for the past 4.5 years has been between 30 and 40km, in fact most weeks has been closer to 30, it was only last year when I was not doing any form of triathlon training that it was just above 40kpw


It's quite clear that I don't run very much, but now that I am not on a bike at all either it's clear I need to pick up the mileage. Last week was my biggest week in over a year at a measly 68km. Hoping to run this as a minimum now for the next few months whilst also avoiding any type of injury!

It's also quite clear that I need to start working in miles otherwise I'm not a proper runner! Sad

Looking forward to the next few months though and trying to crack the marathon. Happy with all of my other pbs despite them being a few years old, but always thought that, based on my other pbs, I should have gone well below the 2:59:47 that I had to struggle to just about get.


Last edited by goldenboots on Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1585
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

goldenboots wrote:
OK time to jump back in this thread and get some targets down. After another year of failed tri training and just about managing to put on too much weight, I have a bit of motivation to try and get under 3 hours again.

It's now over two years since the only and only time I just managed to blag a 3 hour marathon, and I'm keen to drop this pb (2:59:47) with a bit of actual training.

Blew up trying to chase a 3 hour mara at London last year at about mile 16, then ran about 3:03 as part of the Wings for Life World Run a couple of weeks later. Started this year by getting back on the bike and in to the pool, but never really got my head in to triathlon training again. Did manage to run a disappointing 1:23:xx at the big London half in March but couldnt expect more from the little training I had done. Then managed to sprain BOTH ankles in the space of a couple of weeks in the spring and decided I still didn't enjoy triathlon training in London and pulled out of yet another Ironman.

But now I'm signed up for the Richmond Marathon in September and York Marathon in October. Initially I signed up for Richmond in the hope of snagging a late Boston qualifier for next year but I think it;s actually a week late now, so I will likely treat it as a very long training run 4 weeks before York, or even drop out at halfway or so (annoyingly they won't let me change race distance to the shorter, cheaper half marathon on the same day, despite asking over 4 months in advance). I will treat York as a definite pb attempt.


Have just looked ay my run training from the past 4.5 years (start of 2014 > now). I always knew I was relatively lucky in that I set all pbs on very low run mileage, but never realised just how low it was.....

Some insigh:
-I have only ever run over 100km in a week once - when I ran 133 in 3 days slowly last summer
-I have only ever run over 80kpw 5 times
-Since 2014, I have only ran 50kpw about 15% of the time - this I would suggest for most runners is a staple non-training week, but obviously not for me
- My average weekly mileage for the past 4.5 years has been between 30 and 40km, in fact most weeks has been closer to 30, it was only last year when I was not doing any form of triathlon training that it was just above 40kpw


It's quite clear that I don't run very much, but now that I am not on a bike at all either it's clear I need to pick up the mileage. Last week was my biggest week in over a year at a measly 68km. Hoping to run this as a minimum now for the next few months whilst also avoiding any type of injury!

It's also quite clear that I need to start working in miles otherwise I'm not a proper runner! Sad

Looking forward to the next few months though and trying to crack the marathon. Happy with all of my other pbs despite them being a few years old, but always thought that, based on my other pbs, I should have gone well below the 2:59:47 that I had to struggle to just about get.


RUBBISH .... don't do it!!!!!!

kms all the way!!!!!!!!!
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goldenboots




Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4 x Mile reps in 5:43 average on only ~90 secs rest last night at the club session. Not as slow as I thought so am fairly happy. Last week was 8 x 800 on ~80s rest in 2:48 which wasn't quite where I wanted to be but did hurt.

75km in training last week and hopefully another 7 or 8km this week. Body hasnt broken which is good, unlike in the past whenever I would try and ramp up anything past 3/4 runs a week and a max of usually 50km before soon feeling a niggle... so that's a good sign.

Does anybody have much knowledge of the Boston entry process? Entries open up to the fastest times on Monday 10th September, but I have a race on Sunday 17th and it would be pretty cool to qualify. Is there usually any chance of getting an entry 7 days later or have they normally all gone by then?

Quote:
The B.A.A. uses a “rolling admission”¯ schedule, allowing for the fastest athletes to register first:

Monday, September 10, 10:00 a.m. ET - Qualifiers who have met the qualifying standard by 20 minutes, 00 seconds or more are able to submit an entry form.

Wednesday, September 12, 10:00 a.m. ET - Qualifiers who have met the qualifying standard by 10 minutes, 00 or more are able to submit an entry form.

Friday, September 14, 10:00 a.m. ET - Qualifiers who have met the qualifying standard by 5 minutes, 00 or more are able to submit an entry form.

Saturday, September 15, 10:00 p.m. ET - Registration closes for Week 1.
Monday, September 17, 10:00 a.m. ET - If space remains, all qualifiers who have met the qualifying standard by any amount of time are able to submit an entry form. The fastest runners among submissions from Week 2 will be accepted until the maximum field size is reached.

Wednesday, September 19, 5:00 p.m. ET - Registration closes for Week 2.
Monday, September 24, 10:00 a.m. ET - If space remains after the first two weeks of registration, all qualifiers who have met the qualifying standard by any amount of time are able to submit an entry form. During Week 3, submissions will be taken on a first-come, first-served basis until the maximum field size is reached.
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1659

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't believe the cut has ever come above 5 minutes, and when I applied a couple of years ago it only cut at 2 mins or so. If you're 5 minutes under the Q time, even if you only apply in week 2 due to running your time on 17 Sept, I'd say you'd be fine.

I haven't looked at the projections for the cut this year (there are whole websites devoted to it I was avidly tracking a couple of years ago), but from what I learned back then, Boston itself and other massive races like London, statistically drive the number of runners having achieved the Q time. As Boston was a freezing monsoon, and other big races like London a horrendous heatwave, it wouldn't surprise me if the cut is minimal this year.
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My own question...
Any knowledge from the group about where a deferred GFA place will likely have me starting? From what I could see when I signed up via my deferral link, I'm just seen as part of the general mass of deferers, rather than being labelled a GFA deferral, so I'm guessing I won't be in green?
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OldNick




Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1937

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
My own question...
Any knowledge from the group about where a deferred GFA place will likely have me starting? From what I could see when I signed up via my deferral link, I'm just seen as part of the general mass of deferers, rather than being labelled a GFA deferral, so I'm guessing I won't be in green?

It tends to vary year on year but for the last few years the Green start has been for old gits GFA (plus celebs etc.) and Fast Good For Age is at the front of Red with its own assembly area. Not sure what they do with deferrals though, I guess it depends on whether your original qualifying time still applies under the new rules. HTH.
https://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/en-gb/news-media/latest-news/item/the-start-process-explained/
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1659

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldNick wrote:
stenard wrote:
My own question...
Any knowledge from the group about where a deferred GFA place will likely have me starting? From what I could see when I signed up via my deferral link, I'm just seen as part of the general mass of deferers, rather than being labelled a GFA deferral, so I'm guessing I won't be in green?

It tends to vary year on year but for the last few years the Green start has been for old gits GFA (plus celebs etc.) and Fast Good For Age is at the front of Red with its own assembly area. Not sure what they do with deferrals though, I guess it depends on whether your original qualifying time still applies under the new rules. HTH.
https://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/en-gb/news-media/latest-news/item/the-start-process-explained/

I forgot about Fast GFA. I just missed that in 2017 as I think it must have been sub3 and I had got into the very front pen of green GFA with a 3:04.

I'm guessing I will just be mass start, hopefully factoring in my 3:04 time that had also got me into 2018 but which I deferred. That should at least have me in zones 1 or 2.

Obviously this is all ages away. It's just the GFA opened today and other people got talking about it which made me wonder!
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JeffB




Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 1229
Location: Middlesbrough

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
OldNick wrote:
stenard wrote:
My own question...
Any knowledge from the group about where a deferred GFA place will likely have me starting? From what I could see when I signed up via my deferral link, I'm just seen as part of the general mass of deferers, rather than being labelled a GFA deferral, so I'm guessing I won't be in green?

It tends to vary year on year but for the last few years the Green start has been for old gits GFA (plus celebs etc.) and Fast Good For Age is at the front of Red with its own assembly area. Not sure what they do with deferrals though, I guess it depends on whether your original qualifying time still applies under the new rules. HTH.
https://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/en-gb/news-media/latest-news/item/the-start-process-explained/

I forgot about Fast GFA. I just missed that in 2017 as I think it must have been sub3 and I had got into the very front pen of green GFA with a 3:04.

I'm guessing I will just be mass start, hopefully factoring in my 3:04 time that had also got me into 2018 but which I deferred. That should at least have me in zones 1 or 2.

Obviously this is all ages away. It's just the GFA opened today and other people got talking about it which made me wonder!


I deferred last year to this, was in GFA but ended up with the masses this year, albeit in pen 1. But I'm not sure if they were oversubscribed GFA wise with all the changes.

For some reason I think was in the green start this year, which is a smaller area anyway.

Jeff
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1659

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JeffB wrote:
I deferred last year to this, was in GFA but ended up with the masses this year, albeit in pen 1. But I'm not sure if they were oversubscribed GFA wise with all the changes.

Useful, thanks. That was kind of what I was presuming
JeffB wrote:
For some reason I think was in the green start this year, which is a smaller area anyway.

I did read somewhere that this past year they spread GFA out over all the pens, so maybe it wasn't all non-Fast GFA in green as in prior years.

That said, my non-fast GFA bib number (that I deferred) would have had me in green again.

EDIT - I just spotted this on the GFA entry page for 2019:
Quote:
Good for Age runners who were unable to run the 2018 race and withdrew using the existing process, will still qualify for a guaranteed 2019 Good for Age place, as long as they paid the entry fee by the deadline
That would imply I have a 2019 GFA place.
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goldenboots




Joined: 01 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
I don't believe the cut has ever come above 5 minutes, and when I applied a couple of years ago it only cut at 2 mins or so. If you're 5 minutes under the Q time, even if you only apply in week 2 due to running your time on 17 Sept, I'd say you'd be fine.


Perfect thanks - means I'll probably now will have 2 x pb attempts in 4 weeks which no doubt will be interesting, particularly given current fitness.
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 1235
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone entered an autumn marathon ? I'm taking a few weeks off running at the moment while an Osteopath tries to 'release' a problem in my lower back. Seems to be going ok but im hoping to soon dive into an intensive 6 week programme for Dublin on october 27. In all likelihood it will flare up and i'll spend the rest of the year swimming and biking but if the Osteo does lay it successfully to rest i'll be looking to get in and around 3hrs. Anyone else attempted a marathon on such a short programme ? I did run ok at London this year and ran a 1.24 injury affected half in june so should have some fitness there.
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Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 210

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

twhat wrote:
Anyone entered an autumn marathon ? I'm taking a few weeks off running at the moment while an Osteopath tries to 'release' a problem in my lower back. Seems to be going ok but im hoping to soon dive into an intensive 6 week programme for Dublin on october 27. In all likelihood it will flare up and i'll spend the rest of the year swimming and biking but if the Osteo does lay it successfully to rest i'll be looking to get in and around 3hrs. Anyone else attempted a marathon on such a short programme ? I did run ok at London this year and ran a 1.24 injury affected half in june so should have some fitness there.


I'm booked on to Abingdon marathon for another sub 3 attempt (3rd) 31st October. I got my place from the sub 3 Facebook page and they seem to be cropping up more frequently now the date is getting closer. It will be a short training plan for me also following a little break after IM Wales.
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