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The sub 3 hour marathon training thread
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1858

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
EDIT - I just spotted this on the GFA entry page for 2019:
Quote:
Good for Age runners who were unable to run the 2018 race and withdrew using the existing process, will still qualify for a guaranteed 2019 Good for Age place, as long as they paid the entry fee by the deadline
That would imply I have a 2019 GFA place.

Having got my acceptance letter yesterday, I can confirm it says I'm a GFA runner. So I should still have a relatively "clean" start.

It'll be interesting to see how I cope with "coached run volume". In being coached for the first time this year for Ironman, my run volume was broadly on a par with my self-coached marathon volume of years past. I think a marathon focus is going to have that ramp up even more ... have to get my final tri races for the year out the way first though!
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goldenboots




Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another attempt yesterday for a sub 3 hour at the Yorkshire marathon, but since I blew up 4 weeks ago at 14 miles in to a marathon, and a couple of weeks off since due to a foot problem that followed, I was't expecting much

I did decide before the race that I would have a go anyway and see how it planned out. In the end I'm really glad that I did

Went through halfway in 1:28:50 which I had wanted to do (versus usually going a bit quicker than this and paying for it) - though I had 2 bathroom breaks which took about 2 minutes total (very annoying). Was starting to think I was on for a sub 3 and a pb but as per any marathon, it doesnt start until the last 10km or so

At 37km I was still actually under a cumulative 3 hour pace but each km now was getting significantly slower, it was just a question of how much slower. Worked out I would need to run a 20:30 last 5km which would have been my fastest of the day and realized it was not going to happen. A nice bit of a jog back in and a couple of bathroom breaks saw me finish in the end in 3:05 and change.

Always thinking of the whatifs - what if I had actually hadn't had a few weeks off for issuejust before, or if I hadn't stopped for 2 minutes in the first half for the bathroom - but ultimately I was happy with the race as I look at it as only just being outside of a pb and being rather well executed compared to my usual status quo


13 weeks and then I'll try again at the Gloucester marathon
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goldenboots




Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any suggestions on gym work now for the legs over winter, during marathon training?

The limiter yesterday seemed to be the legs which started feeling dead at 25 km or so! Heart rate was lower than my failed attempt 4 weeks ago and never felt tired really, but just couldnt pick the legs up and keep them turning over
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TSH




Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 940
Location: Welsh Riviera

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

goldenboots wrote:
13 weeks and then I'll try again at the Gloucester marathon

I really enjoyed Glos this year and had a 3:03. Might try again next year!
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goldenboots




Joined: 01 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TSH wrote:
goldenboots wrote:
13 weeks and then I'll try again at the Gloucester marathon

I really enjoyed Glos this year and had a 3:03. Might try again next year!


What's the course like? Will likely be my last marathon for a while and so hoping to qualify for Boston 2020 and avoid having to do a summer marathon
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Tri it man




Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 1278
Location: Byfleet

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

goldenboots wrote:
Any suggestions on gym work now for the legs over winter, during marathon training?

The limiter yesterday seemed to be the legs which started feeling dead at 25 km or so! Heart rate was lower than my failed attempt 4 weeks ago and never felt tired really, but just couldnt pick the legs up and keep them turning over


Just run more miles and most slower. Get used to time on feet and building up the resistance and leg muscles. Build up to at least 22/3m and I would do a longish run every week. Either 20m+ with an ease back every 3 weeks around 18m and add in some marathon paced efforts (3/4m) near the end of each long run. Also some 20m races and try and run them progressively to finish strong.
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would add more hills. I have found that i can make up for alack of mileage with plenty of hills, and they work great for strength. I've never done any gym work of any sort before and have not felt like i've lacked strength because of it (when fit).
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goldenboots




Joined: 01 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerbongo wrote:
I would add more hills. I have found that i can make up for alack of mileage with plenty of hills, and they work great for strength. I've never done any gym work of any sort before and have not felt like i've lacked strength because of it (when fit).


To be honest I was thinking this as well, rather than specific strength training. Though currently I live close to central London and don't really have that option, but at the end of next month I will be living close to Richmond park, so most running might have to be laps around there which is certainly hillier than my usual laps of clapham common or hyde park.

Also have a 2 day 90 miles jaunt across Hadrians wall in a month and then a trail marathon in the peak district a couple of weeks later, so hopefully will all count as decent training to help strengthen the legs (in the limited time available anyway)


Just got to keep the motivation up over the usually boozy/cake-filled December
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YKK




Joined: 23 Oct 2011
Posts: 297
Location: North&West london

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

YKK wrote:
I am currently running two this autumn, Sydney and Auckland. Both look a little hilly, but hoping to go under 3 in both. They are 6 weeks apart so kind of ideal (and a lot easier than the Brighton/London combo from the Spring).


And then the second one done.

I am not a morning person. But up at 4AM for for a 6AM start in the dark. I always run in optical sunglasses, regardless of the weather, but could not see a thing in the dark, so specs it was. This was a pain as the out and back headed due east as the sun rose. Why it has to start at 6 I still cannot fathom (other than avoiding the hot sun for the slower runners).

Anyhow it was Auckland. First half hilly. Second half Flat. I paced it pretty well. On paper it looks the best I have ever paces with each 5k split a shade over (an I think possibly occasionally under) 20 minutes. I thought I may be able to pick up the pace at the end but it was a struggle to hold on and I finished in 2:51.

For this one I tried:
3 x 5k races in the week prior and then my biggest ever taper.

Did it work? I don't know. The pacing would suggest yes. But I would like that pacing to have been around 5 seconds per k quicker. So maybe fatigued? maybe flat from over tapering. Who knows. Anyway I now have nothing lined up, but no doubt will be back here next year...
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JeffB




Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 1287
Location: Middlesbrough

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YKK wrote:
YKK wrote:
I am currently running two this autumn, Sydney and Auckland. Both look a little hilly, but hoping to go under 3 in both. They are 6 weeks apart so kind of ideal (and a lot easier than the Brighton/London combo from the Spring).


And then the second one done.

I am not a morning person. But up at 4AM for for a 6AM start in the dark. I always run in optical sunglasses, regardless of the weather, but could not see a thing in the dark, so specs it was. This was a pain as the out and back headed due east as the sun rose. Why it has to start at 6 I still cannot fathom (other than avoiding the hot sun for the slower runners).

Anyhow it was Auckland. First half hilly. Second half Flat. I paced it pretty well. On paper it looks the best I have ever paces with each 5k split a shade over (an I think possibly occasionally under) 20 minutes. I thought I may be able to pick up the pace at the end but it was a struggle to hold on and I finished in 2:51.

For this one I tried:
3 x 5k races in the week prior and then my biggest ever taper.

Did it work? I don't know. The pacing would suggest yes. But I would like that pacing to have been around 5 seconds per k quicker. So maybe fatigued? maybe flat from over tapering. Who knows. Anyway I now have nothing lined up, but no doubt will be back here next year...


Well done, it looked like a good run, I hadn't seen the climbing in the first half so it's good you had anything left in the legs to hold that pace later on.

I know what you mean about the glasses, I normally run in prescription sunglasses but it's not good for early starts if the sun is just coming up.

Jeff
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1858

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First step to Project sub-3 2019 taken this morning ... happened to be walking past the Nike Store on Oxford St ...

They had the new flyknit Vaporfly in stock, in my size, and it was included in the storewide 30% off for black friday. Worth a punt! Razz
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Wheezy




Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 1800
Location: Sub 3 (elect)

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
First step to Project sub-3 2019 taken this morning ... happened to be walking past the Nike Store on Oxford St ...

They had the new flyknit Vaporfly in stock, in my size, and it was included in the storewide 30% off for black friday. Worth a punt! Razz


I could wear rockets on my feet and I'd doubt I would get anywhere near 2:59. best of luck though Stenard. Pretty sure with your HM time you should be a dead-cert for it; just don't get injured! Razz
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wheezy wrote:
Pretty sure with your HM time you should be a dead-cert for it; just don't get injured! Razz

It was somewhat complacency based on this line of thinking that kinda got me in trouble in 2017! I'm taking nothing for granted! At least I missed the sauna of London this year ... a perfectly timed deferral!
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Tony Stark




Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 2480
Location: Milton Keynes

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
First step to Project sub-3 2019 taken this morning ... happened to be walking past the Nike Store on Oxford St ...

They had the new flyknit Vaporfly in stock, in my size, and it was included in the storewide 30% off for black friday. Worth a punt! Razz


More marketing $$$ well spent on conning MOP runners that a shoe will make them faster Smile
If you are 60-65kg, running sub 2.40 and can afford shoes which are good for about 100 miles only then you might get a few extra seconds out of them. >70kg then you're going to be sore 20 miles into the race and for the next 2 weeks, plus needing a new pair for next time.
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1858

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting views. What's your basis? I've actually read a number of reviews and lots of independent sites claim these shoes really are a step change in technology. They acknowledge most claims are pretty unsubstantiated, but that these shoes are different. The first tiny little run I did in them would support that.

For ref, come London I would aim to be <70kg (I was under this for Copenhagen, currently 71.5) and targeting about 2.50-55 if training goes well
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