Tri Talk HomepageTri Talk EventsTri Talk ForumsBlogsTri Talk TrainingTri TradeTriPlayerWikiTeam Tri Talk
The sub 3 hour marathon training thread
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 390, 391, 392  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TriTalk.co.uk Forum Index -> Training
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
chickenboy




Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 1657

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TriSam wrote:
Valencia Marathon this weekend! Good luck to Chickenboy or whatever his name is on here Very Happy Anyone else entered into it?


haha, cheers bud. Looking forward to it. This will be my 20th standalone marathon, so to celebrate i plan to go balls out from the start and hang on for as long as possible. What could possibly go wrong?! Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Grifter




Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 615
Location: Treading water

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TriSam wrote:
Gutted to hear about your plantar fascia Grifter, heal up soon. How long do you think you'll be out for? I've seen lots of bike sessions from you recently.


Hopefully back gentle running next week and see how it goes from there. I will have missed three XC races by Xmas which is gutting.

Enjoying trainerroad at the moment and also trying to swim a bit more to fill in the void.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sb20




Joined: 07 Sep 2011
Posts: 911
Location: Beautifull hilly SW Surrey

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:10 pm    Post subject: Boston Reply with quote

Anyone here plannning on Boston in April. I really really want to break my 3hr cherry there!

Have not taken the autumn off this year so am in much better shape already
_________________
First Tri an evening sprint in 2008 done a few since then inc 2x Roth, IM Wales, 2x Celtman, Alps d'Huez Long, O till O, Ceasers Camp 100 x2, Norseman, Ring O Fire, St Oswalds 100, Cambrian trail, 2 Race to the King, UTMB and so it goes on!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1985

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How's everyone going in the first few weeks of the year?

For me, getting back into the swing of running after an excessive December, was tough. I basically did nothing between Bahrain 70.3 and Christmas, other than drink and eat loads, and get fatter.

The result of returning to running was some seriously sore lower limbs. Somehow managed to clock up 49km during Christmas and New Year. That discomfort seemed to ease first week of Jan, and I ticked off a solid 80k, except for the fact the final km of that resulted in an acute calf twinge.

Cue no real running the following week. Physio, massage, and some stretching got me back out for a bit, and thankfully it was just excessive tightness meaning the muscle just screamed at me a bit, rather than an actual injury. Only 3 runs, and 33k in that week, 25k of that over the weekend at the end of the week.

Last week felt a lot better. After consultation with my physio and coach, I've ditched a Thursday recovery run for a S&C session. I'm going to commit to them. I've always just buried my head in the sand with those things in the past. As a result, I only ran 4 times, but managed 77k and felt good. 29k long run yesterday, with 17k in the middle at 4:26/km pace, so getting towards the ball park of target MP.

Just need to establish some consistency now over the coming weeks...
_________________
My blog: https://stenardstuff.wordpress.com/
Random stuff and race reports
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
goldenboots




Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back in the sub 3 club after 2.5 years away. Gloucester Marathon at the weekend and managed a nice new 3:30ish PB for a 2:56:14.

Was slowing for the last few miles but fortunately had built a rather huge buffer (through 1/2 way in about 1:25ish) so meant I could enjoy the last few miles with a smile knowing I would definitely do it.

That means I can do Boston next year now and stop chasing the sub 3 hour train for a while.


Rant - one of the guys in front (I was 7th place) put about 3-5 metres in me as he overtook by cutting the corner on the curb. If somebody does it once, one can only assume they will do it every possible opportunity - I'd guess there were at least 30 corners or so (it was a 4 lap race) where they cut have done the same!

Gave them an earful as they went by me on the 3rd lap so hopefully that was deterrent enough from doing it again... but at a small race where somebody was in the top 5 (and potentially on the podium for the whole race or at least the vet age group) I would have expected better!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1985

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

goldenboots wrote:
Back in the sub 3 club after 2.5 years away. Gloucester Marathon at the weekend and managed a nice new 3:30ish PB for a 2:56:14.

Was slowing for the last few miles but fortunately had built a rather huge buffer (through 1/2 way in about 1:25ish) so meant I could enjoy the last few miles with a smile knowing I would definitely do it.

That means I can do Boston next year now and stop chasing the sub 3 hour train for a while.


Rant - one of the guys in front (I was 7th place) put about 3-5 metres in me as he overtook by cutting the corner on the curb. If somebody does it once, one can only assume they will do it every possible opportunity - I'd guess there were at least 30 corners or so (it was a 4 lap race) where they cut have done the same!

Gave them an earful as they went by me on the 3rd lap so hopefully that was deterrent enough from doing it again... but at a small race where somebody was in the top 5 (and potentially on the podium for the whole race or at least the vet age group) I would have expected better!!

Was waiting for you to update here on your performance! Well done again.

Interesting question on the course. I've frequently run on paths and curbs etc to pass people in big races. I've never really thought about it being considered cheating. Clearly on a track running inside the lane line would be a no go, but street courses just seem so variable in all regards, I've always assumed anything not barriered is acceptable. Appreciate in smaller races they might not all be fully barriered, but again, there's often so many bits where you have to weave past other road furniture, or people, that it's not really an overall advantage (at least in my mind).

An example I can recall is the far turn on the Bath Half course, as you turn back onto Lower Bristol Road ... I'm fairly sure I've always taken the inside path there and left the road surface, as have pretty much everyone else around me, although I presume the course measurement is done on the apex of the road.
_________________
My blog: https://stenardstuff.wordpress.com/
Random stuff and race reports
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
goldenboots




Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would definitely argue that anything off the road and up the curb is not part of the course, and is cutting a corner or cheating if you repeatedly take the inside line, no different from doing it on a track versus a measured road race. This guy at the moment was running at a similar pace, and went from about 2 metres behind me to 1-2 metres in front. Fine, I guess, if only done once... but 30 times or more in a race and he ends up saving a small amount of time. Also took some audacity to do that when the person in front (who you're actually racing) takes the proper route on the road and you decide to jump up on the pavment and cut a few metres out. It was a small race so there wasn't any dodging people or anything at any point really.

Again... not a material difference / only cheating himself etc etc blah blah ... but when it's a small race, and that person was in the top 5... would have hoped for better from somebody running at that level
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1985

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

goldenboots wrote:
I would definitely argue that anything off the road and up the curb is not part of the course, and is cutting a corner or cheating if you repeatedly take the inside line, no different from doing it on a track versus a measured road race. This guy at the moment was running at a similar pace, and went from about 2 metres behind me to 1-2 metres in front. Fine, I guess, if only done once... but 30 times or more in a race and he ends up saving a small amount of time. Also took some audacity to do that when the person in front (who you're actually racing) takes the proper route on the road and you decide to jump up on the pavement and cut a few metres out. It was a small race so there wasn't any dodging people or anything at any point really.

Again... not a material difference / only cheating himself etc etc blah blah ... but when it's a small race, and that person was in the top 5... would have hoped for better from somebody running at that level

I think the bit in bold is probably the difference for me. When I was thinking back to times when I've done the same, I'm just following the hoards in front. When you are surrounded by other people, then you cant really force yourself wider of the apex the overall group is working towards just to stay on the road.

Agreed that if I was running in a tiny group near the front, this would be more obviously seeking to gain an unfair advantage.
_________________
My blog: https://stenardstuff.wordpress.com/
Random stuff and race reports
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 245

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

goldenboots wrote:
I would definitely argue that anything off the road and up the curb is not part of the course, and is cutting a corner or cheating if you repeatedly take the inside line, no different from doing it on a track versus a measured road race. This guy at the moment was running at a similar pace, and went from about 2 metres behind me to 1-2 metres in front. Fine, I guess, if only done once... but 30 times or more in a race and he ends up saving a small amount of time. Also took some audacity to do that when the person in front (who you're actually racing) takes the proper route on the road and you decide to jump up on the pavment and cut a few metres out. It was a small race so there wasn't any dodging people or anything at any point really.

Again... not a material difference / only cheating himself etc etc blah blah ... but when it's a small race, and that person was in the top 5... would have hoped for better from somebody running at that level


Congratulations on your result. Hope to be in the club at some point this year.

I don't agree with your premise that it is cheating. If it is not implicitly stated in the rules that you can't use the curbs/paths (you are the only person I have ever heard mention it) then I would and do assume that it's perfectly fine. They are not cheating, you are just not taking the shortest line around the course.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
goldenboots




Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting subject actually and interesting to hear other POVs on it.

For me - in a closed road race, the road is the course. If for example, only one lane of the road is closed, only that lane is part of the course - if only the left lane was open, it wouldn't be acceptable to go into the right lane of the road around a right hand bend would it.

Surely the same is true of the pavement, especially around a 90 degree bend in the course. AFAIK a route would never be measured by going up and over the pavement. You are cheating yourself of the measured course. And if others around you are taking the road and not cutting the corner, you are cheating others

Completely understand in regards to a mass of people doing this in a large city marathon, but even then, I personally where possible (which I'd argue is 99.9% of the time) would still stay on the road as that is the course.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 245

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the halfs and maras that I have done it was not possible to get near to the racing line for the first 10 minutes. I would think it very unlikely that you could go under the distance by running the pavement on a couple of corners. I'm not sure it is a clear advantage either as you have to interrupt your rhythm/stride for the curbs & change in heights.

Obviously anyone at the pointy end is going to run a shorter distance to the masses, it's just how it is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1985

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I definitely get your point. But then, taking London as an example where there is the blue "racing line" actually painted on the floor, it is feasible to take shorter, sharper apexes around corners than the line is measured at.

As Doca says, I think it's just accepted that on the whole, you are never going to be able to run the shortest route that is conceptually possible, and so there's a bit of give and take.
_________________
My blog: https://stenardstuff.wordpress.com/
Random stuff and race reports
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
YKK




Joined: 23 Oct 2011
Posts: 305
Location: North&West london

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I race marathons, and I have run a few now, my main thoughts are:
Am I going to fast? (slow usually for the last 6 miles)
Am I taking the shortest line.

This is to say I spend most of my time making sure I take the shortest route I can. The generally involves looking ahead seeing which way the runners up ahead are going and then slightly adjusting my line to hit the corner in the shortest route. I try not to take out other runners obviously! basically I am saying I am fairly obsessed with it.
If I am moving faster then those around me at a corner, I may undertake them as it is the shorter route and I don't want to run further than I need to. Obviously it needs to be safe and I rarely go up a kerb, but do if I need to.

Side note, London 2015, I started at the back of the Red GFA as I was late and ended up behind the 3hr pacer with the inevitable massive clump of people. (I was running 2:55/2:56 pace, so faster but not by much. It took about 7 miles to get through the crowd safely without going to wide on any of the corners and to be honest probably did me the world of good as from memory I died very little on that one.

Even with all that obsession I expect all the marathons I have run, I have always ended running over distance anyhow, so in my view it comes in the wash.

Side note 2: At my old local park run there is a pavement all round the inside of the course and around the back of the course it is customary to pop onto it once around the larger part of the bend as you need to cross it to run up the hill. However once someone near my pace ran the whole race on the pavement which really irked me, luckily I beat otherwise I may well have said a few words. Mad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Buzz_




Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 431

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you are happy to cut the course in an official race but get wound up when someone else cuts a corner in a timed run?

Just because you haven't run the shortest line on the rest of the course, doesn't give you licence to make up the difference by cutting somewhere else. Having said that, someone running on pavement instead of road is not something that I would get excited about.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
goldenboots




Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to point out - this was a 250 person race with no having to move or dodge people or anything. There was absolutely no reason not to be able to take the racing line for pretty much the whole race

And more to the point - if it's OK to do it once or twice, I can only assume that person will be willing to do it over and over. The only example I saw of this person, they were not slightly going on the inside of somebody and stepping up on to the curb... they cut the corner to shorten the route. There was nobody else around except me in a couple of metres in front and I stayed on the road, they weren't dodging.

And to repeat the point... if it's OK to do it once, I can only assume they will do it again and again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TriTalk.co.uk Forum Index -> Training All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 390, 391, 392  Next
Page 391 of 392
  Share
 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum





Home | About TT | Privacy Policy | Terms and Conditions | Advertising | Contact TT
Copyright ©2003-2015 TriTalk®.co.uk. All rights reserved.