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Measuring Fitness and Training Stress
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dalkiin




Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Posts: 1956
Location: dropped by the peloton

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a note to say thanks for this (and your posts on the "how many hours" thread). I'm currently doing a bodge job of TSS where I just make up numbers and put them in a spreadsheet, but am finding that it's helping with planning how much to do and also managing changes (when work and life interrupt training) - obviously alongside a long-term periodisation plan and short-term activity mix plan.

If it proves useful in a longer term, I may dig out the HR monitor and have a play the sporttracks system.

And as I said before, I now have *another* graph. Woot. Smile
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RichA




Joined: 02 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know of a 'Sport Tracks for Dummies' guide? (Or fancy writing one?) Mainly on how to set up, and use features.

It seems to be very unintuitive sw and I am not sure I have it set up right. Would likle to track swim, bike & runs.

Thks.
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jibberjim




Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 8095
Location: Kingston

PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichA wrote:
Does anyone know of a 'Sport Tracks for Dummies' guide? (Or fancy writing one?) Mainly on how to set up, and use features.

It seems to be very unintuitive sw and I am not sure I have it set up right. Would likle to track swim, bike & runs.


Have you seen the FAQ's over on the SportTracks Site? Some guy was writing pretty good ones - he used my Weight etc. data for some of the screenshots.

You could also grab me or Maryka on a club run one day and talk through it, not sure about writing a guide, but maybe one day when I'm bored Smile
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Gav888




Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Posts: 39
Location: Suffolk

PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive downloaded the Training Load plugin from the website in the link, but how do you actually apply it to SportTracks so I can use it??

Ive had a search on the net and I cannot find anything plus had a good look on the SportTracks app and nothing there.

At present ive copied the downloaded content in the Zone Five folder in programs files replacing the existing folders.

Ive loaded other plugins ok just this one doesnt seem to want to work?
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jibberjim




Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 8095
Location: Kingston

PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rename the downloaded file to trainingload.st2plugin (it should've downloaded like that, but it sounds like your browser made it a .zip) and then double click it, sport tracks will start and install the plugin. No manual copying needed.
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Gav888




Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Posts: 39
Location: Suffolk

PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info but still no joy.

I downloaded the file and it did save as a .zip file, FYI I saved it in My Documents, so I renamed it as recommended double clicked on it and it still opened in winzip. I amended the 'open with' to Sporttracks then double clicked again, I now get the below error in Sporttracks?

Data at the root level is invalid. Line 1, position 1.

at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.Throw(Exception e)
at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.Throw(String res, String arg)
at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.ParseRootLevelWhitespace()
at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.ParseDocumentContent()
at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.Read()
at System.Xml.XmlLoader.Load(XmlDocument doc, XmlReader reader, Boolean preserveWhitespace)
at System.Xml.XmlDocument.Load(XmlReader reader)
at System.Xml.XmlDocument.Load(String filename)
at ZoneFiveSoftware.SportTracks.IO.LogbookIO.Open(String filename, IJobMonitor monitor, JobResults& results)

I then opened Sporttrack and went to the plugin page from there, downloaded the training load plugin again and this time it saved as ST3PLUGIN File (.st3plugin), doubling clicking that gave the same error as above.

I tried renaming it and again I had the same issue as above???
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jibberjim




Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 8095
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gav888 wrote:
I then opened Sporttrack and went to the plugin page from there, downloaded the training load plugin again and this time it saved as ST3PLUGIN File (.st3plugin), doubling clicking that gave the same error as above.

I tried renaming it and again I had the same issue as above???


Ah, that's a Sport Tracks 3 plugin... you probably still have ST 2, you can get the right plugin from

http://leaseatl.com/STPlugins/TrainingLoad_v1.4.6.st2plugin
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Gav888




Joined: 22 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jibberjim wrote:
Gav888 wrote:
I then opened Sporttrack and went to the plugin page from there, downloaded the training load plugin again and this time it saved as ST3PLUGIN File (.st3plugin), doubling clicking that gave the same error as above.

I tried renaming it and again I had the same issue as above???


Ah, that's a Sport Tracks 3 plugin... you probably still have ST 2, you can get the right plugin from

http://leaseatl.com/STPlugins/TrainingLoad_v1.4.6.st2plugin


Tried the ST2 link, same error sadly!! Im on version 2.1.3478.

Just upgrades to ST3 and downloaded the plugin, same error again!

Data at the root level is invalid. Line 1, position 1.

at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.Throw(Exception e)
at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.Throw(String res, String arg)
at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.ParseRootLevelWhitespace()
at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.ParseDocumentContent()
at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.Read()
at System.Xml.XmlLoader.Load(XmlDocument doc, XmlReader reader, Boolean preserveWhitespace)
at System.Xml.XmlDocument.Load(XmlReader reader)
at System.Xml.XmlDocument.Load(String filename)
at ZoneFiveSoftware.SportTracks.IO.LogbookIO.Open(String filename, IJobMonitor monitor, JobResults& results)

Gonna try and uninstall both and reinstall ST3 to see what happens...
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Gav888




Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Posts: 39
Location: Suffolk

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, uninstalled ST2 and ST3, cleaned the PC and rebooted, reinstalled ST3 from the zone five website, trial version, thats now installled and running ok, imported my training logs.

Now, I went to the plugin page via ST3 and downloaded the Training Load plugin. I click open when prompted and then it comes up with choose program you want to open this file with!

I select ST3 from the folder in Program Files and it doesnt add to the program list, so I cannot open the file with ST3.

The plugin is called - TrainingLoad_v1.8.6[1].st3plugin.

Ive also renamed that to TrainingLoad.st3plugin but that didnt work either.

Im using Internet Explorer 8 if that makes any difference?
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Gav888




Joined: 22 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fixed it. When changing from ST2 to ST3 I had 3 plugin's but your only allowed 2 on the trial version.

I couldnt remove them from the plugin page as it just said I had the latest version of the plugin, but the uninstall button was greyed out, so searched the PC for ZoneFive folders and removed any references to ST2 including the plugin's. I only had the one plugin which was for my Garmin, just installed TrainingLoad plugin straight away from the link above with no issues.

Thought it might be useful to note the fix incase anyone else has the same issue Smile

Right, time to figure out how to use it Smile
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Fuzzy Dunlop




Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 3098
Location: In my kitchen making a secret sauce...

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been doing some reading and looking at my WKO+ graphs on this over the last couple of days. This excellent thread, while a little dusty in TT terms, is therefore very topical for me. So I join the chorus of thanks Jim.

I like Russ's idea of sticking planned sessions into the mix and seeing if the graph says I'll be ready to rock - or just ready for bed. I'll defo do that for eg. month prior to a race. If I have time also for e.g. the next week if im wondering whether to honk it, take it easy etc (I don't follow a strict rest day/week regime).

Anyway, I have a couple of simple number queries for anyone else using this data.
1. Aside from saying a 0 TSB means you're RTG, are there any other number conventions for me to have in mind (eg, "don't go below -50TSB for X days").
2. What type of weekly TSS scores are you people holding down? I don't add in my 1 or 2 swims a week but last four weeks have been 464, 607, 481, 613. AND
3. Is there any reason for me to deviate from the WKO+ standard 42/7 day constants?

Thanks

Dan
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jibberjim




Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 8095
Location: Kingston

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:
1. Aside from saying a 0 TSB means you're RTG


I perform atrociously at 0TSB - But I don't do long races, I suspect the longer the race the closer to 0 or positive you want, but it certainly won't be a general rule, it's a guide that you have to learn what you want.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:
, are there any other number conventions for me to have in mind (eg, "don't go below -50TSB for X days").


It's seriously hard to maintain -50TSB for many days at all. You probably need to look at %age of your CTL anyway and when your CTL is below 50-60 it's probably not relevant as your non training stress is potentially hire than your training stress and then you're really managing your increase if you're ramping up your training.

But in my 2 1/2 years of data, as a person who does really big weeks if I get the chance, I've managed -53 TSB on just one day, on the 9th day of a trip to Lanza doing at least 4 hours hard cycling every day and a threshold run every couple of days. The next day despite training it was -49.

When you that a serious training long distance triathlete will likely push his CTL up to 90-100 that's 1 hour of all out work every day - just to continue breaking even. To get it up to -49 you need really big efforts that are likely impossible.

My normal CTL range is 100-110, the atriocious december weather had it drop to 75 but it's now at 114 (-25 TSB which is high - based mostly on 4 ~250 TSS rides in the last week and some 1 hour efforts. As well as the commutes. It's all cycling at the moment (well they'll be a little bit of CTL left from running but I'm off it having started the cycling season with my first race yesterday)

My last 4 weeks 79, 793, 1064, 863. Bear in mind these are actually higher than normal weeks as you happened to have asked just as I've been ramping up my cycling. However even with a TSB of -16 yesterday morning, I did a power record for the 35minute TT. It wasn't an awesome effort, but it was a pretty good one I think, and leaves me optimistic for the shape I'm actually in - certainly more so than saturdays Box Hill challenge test where I only managed 90% of my best.
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Fuzzy Dunlop




Joined: 14 Jul 2008
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Location: In my kitchen making a secret sauce...

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers Jim

Yes, finding my RTG number is something I'm looking at now with regard to past races. I ran very well over half mara the other week at -1. Raced well last summer at +10 too - although I suspect from looking at the graph curve that I had a needlessly long taper for this race. I've got a race this weekend (c1 hour duathlon) and will train well this week in the lead up. TSB is -22 now so likely lower by Sunday. Will be interesting to see how I go on that.

And yes, I wasn't thinking -50 would be a fun place to be. I should have expressed it as "don't spend more than X days at below -Y TSB". But you've you've pretty much answered my question anyway with your stats on -50.

The graphs are fun. I like the CLT line. Mine starts at 25 after two weeks off in November and has gradually increased since then to its current 66. Plenty more scope it seems Smile.
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Russ C




Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 969
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim's basically answered your questions.

I put up some numbers and thoughts based off last year on my blog - http://www.trainstravels.co.uk/2011/01/07/analysing-a-season-one-last-look-at-2010/ It covers some of your questions, but the numbers are personal.

1. TSB - experiment with what works with racing. Racing long course means my sample set is relatively small and I'd say I'm still not certain, but have a ball park +10 - +20. On the other side I've done some seriously negative TSBs on massive training camps. Main thing with spending longer periods at more negative numbers is you're going to need to recover at some point... You may find your own experience of where those boundaries are differs.

2. In training last year I held weekly TSS (without swim) between 800-1500. Varied by composition of the week. Currently I'm not training as much and TSS sits around 400-700. I'm aiming to sit back around the 800-1000 mark by March.

3. I've never changed them myself. You might potentially tweak the constants if you feel you respond to training differently to others. I've never felt I could change them with any great certainty I was improving the accuracy of the graph.

I've found in past years CTL around the 110-120 mark made for very good training weeks. Building much higher started to demand too much to be sustainable. I'd generally race around the 90-110 mark.
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Fuzzy Dunlop




Joined: 14 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Russ, the blog info is really interesting and useful.
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