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55ant




Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 1315

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:20 pm    Post subject: Cycling Volume Reply with quote

Putting together a bit of a framework for winter, starting in october.

Looking to improve all round with a focus on the running, but want to have a good base to work on cycling from february. What is a decent mileage to be completing in a week from october to Feb? currently im averaging about 60/70 but they are mainly hills, intervals/speed work.

Looking to improve the 40k bike split from 1:03 ish (average this year for oly split.)

Also going to try and do tis whole turbo thing as never really got going on it.

Ant
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Tony Stark




Joined: 26 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Cycling Volume Reply with quote

55ant wrote:
...currently im averaging about 60/70 but they are mainly hills, intervals/speed work.

That's the Sunday ride covered. Don't you think you should get a few rides in during the rest of the week? Razz
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johnpsanderson




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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
55ant wrote:
...currently im averaging about 60/70 but they are mainly hills, intervals/speed work.

That's the Sunday ride covered. Don't you think you should get a few rides in during the rest of the week?


+1 Very Happy Very Happy

Seriously though - if you want to follow the maxim of smart training and do the least amount of work necessary to achieve the necessary adaptation I don't think base rides need to go over 3 hours really - but make it a long steady ride rather than intervals etc...
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doug




Joined: 07 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or you could look at it another way. Winter is a crap time to increase cycling volume (crap weather, lack of daylight, wet/icy roads) so I concentrate on increasing intensity (mainly on the turbo) and leave the volume until spring. When you get to the spring volume phase you can do that at a higher intensity.


http://www.m2rev.com/articles/m2_training_concepts/rideless.html

http://www.m2rev.com/articles/m2_training_concepts/rethink.html
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cocksey




Joined: 16 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

doug wrote:
Or you could look at it another way. Winter is a crap time to increase cycling volume (crap weather, lack of daylight, wet/icy roads) so I concentrate on increasing intensity (mainly on the turbo) and leave the volume until spring. When you get to the spring volume phase you can do that at a higher intensity.


http://www.m2rev.com/articles/m2_training_concepts/rideless.html

http://www.m2rev.com/articles/m2_training_concepts/rethink.html


Great read that doug! It was like an article written just for me after this year. A friend of mine agrees with that philosophy(i don't think hes even read that, its just how he is) he just tells me why ride 60 miles at a pace where you know you could go faster? Clearly riding hard for 10 miles and 80 miles are two very different speeds. He did outlaw this year, from being a couch potato to ironman in 18 months posting a 5:45 bike. He must be doing something right Smile
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NinoP




Joined: 30 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

doug wrote:
Or you could look at it another way. Winter is a crap time to increase cycling volume (crap weather, lack of daylight, wet/icy roads) so I concentrate on increasing intensity (mainly on the turbo) and leave the volume until spring. When you get to the spring volume phase you can do that at a higher intensity.


http://www.m2rev.com/articles/m2_training_concepts/rideless.html

http://www.m2rev.com/articles/m2_training_concepts/rethink.html


That's what the AIS used to do I think (reverse periodiation or something).
It worked for them..
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stu l-p




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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NinoP wrote:
doug wrote:
Or you could look at it another way. Winter is a crap time to increase cycling volume (crap weather, lack of daylight, wet/icy roads) so I concentrate on increasing intensity (mainly on the turbo) and leave the volume until spring. When you get to the spring volume phase you can do that at a higher intensity.


http://www.m2rev.com/articles/m2_training_concepts/rideless.html

http://www.m2rev.com/articles/m2_training_concepts/rethink.html


That's what the AIS used to do I think (reverse periodiation or something).
It worked for them..


what do they do now? have they moved on?
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NinoP




Joined: 30 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stu l-p wrote:
NinoP wrote:
doug wrote:
Or you could look at it another way. Winter is a crap time to increase cycling volume (crap weather, lack of daylight, wet/icy roads) so I concentrate on increasing intensity (mainly on the turbo) and leave the volume until spring. When you get to the spring volume phase you can do that at a higher intensity.


http://www.m2rev.com/articles/m2_training_concepts/rideless.html

http://www.m2rev.com/articles/m2_training_concepts/rethink.html


That's what the AIS used to do I think (reverse periodiation or something).
It worked for them..


what do they do now? have they moved on?


not sure. I said 'used' as it was old knowledge.. I think I read it about 4yrs ago or so..but it could have been referring to a time previous then..
Then did produce excellent results in the past though (and still do).

I don't think this method works for me, I would tend to go bang..
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55ant




Joined: 16 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ooh, I like the look of reverse pyramid/periodisation. Whilst the article is very interesting, there aren't to many examples of what sort of training they are backing, unless i missed it? to adapt it for oly distance would i be looking at building up to 1hour of intervals around LT? I really have no idea on this!
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doug




Joined: 07 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

55ant wrote:
ooh, I like the look of reverse pyramid/periodisation. Whilst the article is very interesting, there aren't to many examples of what sort of training they are backing, unless i missed it? to adapt it for oly distance would i be looking at building up to 1hour of intervals around LT? I really have no idea on this!


1hr at threshold will probably waste you for a couple of days Twisted Evil

You are better of doing building up to 2*20 @ just under threshold (or 4*10 or similar) - gets you pretty much the same training benefit, but with better recovery (meaning you can do it more often) - this is "Sweet Spot" training



http://enduratech.blogspot.com/2009/02/how-to-find-sweet-spot.html
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NinoP




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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

doug wrote:
55ant wrote:
ooh, I like the look of reverse pyramid/periodisation. Whilst the article is very interesting, there aren't to many examples of what sort of training they are backing, unless i missed it? to adapt it for oly distance would i be looking at building up to 1hour of intervals around LT? I really have no idea on this!


1hr at threshold will probably waste you for a couple of days Twisted Evil

You are better of doing building up to 2*20 @ just under threshold (or 4*10 or similar) - gets you pretty much the same training benefit, but with better recovery (meaning you can do it more often) - this is "Sweet Spot" training



http://enduratech.blogspot.com/2009/02/how-to-find-sweet-spot.html


+1, spot on Wink
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NinoP




Joined: 30 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NinoP wrote:
stu l-p wrote:
NinoP wrote:
doug wrote:
Or you could look at it another way. Winter is a crap time to increase cycling volume (crap weather, lack of daylight, wet/icy roads) so I concentrate on increasing intensity (mainly on the turbo) and leave the volume until spring. When you get to the spring volume phase you can do that at a higher intensity.


http://www.m2rev.com/articles/m2_training_concepts/rideless.html

http://www.m2rev.com/articles/m2_training_concepts/rethink.html


That's what the AIS used to do I think (reverse periodiation or something).
It worked for them..


what do they do now? have they moved on?


not sure. I said 'used' as it was old knowledge.. I think I read it about 4yrs ago or so..but it could have been referring to a time previous then..
Then did produce excellent results in the past though (and still do).

I don't think this method works for me, I would tend to go bang..


btw, I think it was 'Vo2 max' type stuff, eg 5min intervals etc..
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johnpsanderson




Joined: 15 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
ooh, I like the look of reverse pyramid/periodisation.


Call me cynical - but is this because it looks like an easier way to achieve the outcome? There is rarely a free lunch...

Quote:
He did outlaw this year, from being a couch potato to ironman in 18 months posting a 5:45 bike. He must be doing something right


As always: was it because of, or in spite of?

Quote:
You are better of doing building up to 2*20 @ just under threshold (or 4*10 or similar) - gets you pretty much the same training benefit, but with better recovery (meaning you can do it more often) - this is "Sweet Spot" training


Exactly what i'd suggest - but not across the whole winter.
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55ant




Joined: 16 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Quote:
ooh, I like the look of reverse pyramid/periodisation.


Call me cynical - but is this because it looks like an easier way to achieve the outcome? There is rarely a free lunch...



No quite the opposite for me, working shifts time is a main constraint, so being able to do a session on the turbo is very beneficial as it removes the time mucking around getting ready, and I feel that 2x 20 minutes woud be more beneficial for me than squeezing in an hour or two on the roads, also the more time i can keep for running the better. For me i think I wasted a lot of time this year with junk miles, hence my pre-planning for winter. If i can replace 1 or 2 long rides with an hour turbo and still get out for a weekend ride that would suit me down to the ground, and there seems to be some strong backing for that, of which i was not aware of before this post.
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doug




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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnpsanderson wrote:
Quote:
ooh, I like the look of reverse pyramid/periodisation.


Call me cynical - but is this because it looks like an easier way to achieve the outcome? There is rarely a free lunch...


If it looks easier then you are doing it wrong Very Happy

It is less volume, but higher intensity - suits some people some of the time, not all.
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