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The Award Winning Thread - Sub 10 IM Plan
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McC




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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:38 pm    Post subject: The Award Winning Thread - Sub 10 IM Plan Reply with quote

Fresh from popping my Iron distance cherry at The Outlaw in 11h20m I'm now focussing on going Sub-10. It would have been sub-11 by simply HTFU through the two transitions, so I believe my target is realistic and achievable. However, the question is do I simply do the same Fink Comp plan again, or is that unlikely to deliver the 9% improvement I seek?

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Last edited by McC on Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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willthames




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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you take 25+ minutes in transition? That seems like an awful lot! But having said that, that would have rested you to an extent, so while you might have shaved 20 mins off transition, that wouldn't necessarily be reflected in a 20 min shorter race.

I have this vague idea that I could shave an hour off my 12h17 time at IMCH this year, by improving my swim, bike and run, and with decent training and discipline I could probably achieve that. However, I do know where I think those improvements are - 10-15 minutes off a crap swim, 30 minutes off just improving naturally on the bike, and another 15-20 minutes off the run to get a 4 hour marathon, including a drop in weight. That's off two seasons of training, so plenty of potential room for improvement yet.

You might have similar potential gains ready to realise to shave an hour off your time - I guess it's a matter of being realistic and knowing where is best to focus your training to shave that time off - for me, bike training hours, swim skills and nutrition will probably be my focus points.
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BW




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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would guess we would need more info. to give better opinion:

How old are you?

BF %age?

How long in triathlon?

Sporting Background?

What were your splits at The Outlaw?

What are your PB's in standalone swimming, cycling, running events?

How many hours can you commit?

How good is your nutrition?

Any long term injuries/weaknesses?

Etc. etc. etc.

Interesting subject.

BW
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MTriton




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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't see where you are going to get the time from Big Willy. The gap to close down to sub 10 hours is just too big for you surely!
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Russ C




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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Big Willy has pretty much covered all the questions you'd need to answer for advice to be given. You are talking of a significant chunk of time to take off, but given we don't know the details of your race and preparation for it it could be possible.

If transitions took 25 minutes one question is what you were doing and how you can ensure you don't need so long in the future? Bear in mind that as mentioned that time in transition gave you some rest and more time to absorb nutrition. Would you have performed as well without it?

I'm all for setting ambitious goals though especially if they help motivate you. The why and how of achieving that will need more details.
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sesel




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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever plan or routine you decide to follow, being consistent with your training is really important. Consistency will allow you to benefit from the base of fitness you've already created. If you're serious about your goals, don't go taking time off over winter and gaining weight.
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davesm




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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too am interested in how this thread will pan out. I did 11.26 at the Outlaw which was 2 hours quicker than when I did Sherborne 07 (different type of course I know) and I guess the Norseman last year was all about survival for me.

I did have what could be described as leisurely transitions but did a 59min swim, 5.42 bike and 4.29 run. I didn't think I pushed the bike as I was worried about falling apart on the run. I worked to HR and my ave over the bike and run was 128 with a max of 153. I'm doing Roth next year and although I am not sure if I have the talent to go sub 10 I would certainly like to go under 11 hours, possibly 10.5.

It would be good to listen to advice on how to improve my basic speed on the bike and the run.
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McC




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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Willy wrote:
I would guess we would need more info. to give better opinion:


Thanks BW, see my answers below.

How old are you? 40

BF %age? 8.7%

How long in triathlon? Second season, see sig below.

Sporting Background? None since early teens, but regular MTB for 18 months before taking up Tri .

What were your splits at The Outlaw?

Swim: 1:20.27
T1: 0:12:18
Bike: 5:26.06 HRA: 145 HRM: 161 Cad: 93 (Z1=0:26,Z2=4:06,Z3=0:43)
T2: 0:06:09
Run: 4:15.25 HRA: 137 HRM: 149 Cad: 82 (Z1=2:53, Z2=1:09)


What are your PB's in standalone swimming, cycling, running events?

Swim: 1:15
Bike: 5:11
Run: 3:32

(All of the above as recorded PB's during training for Outlaw, rather than
specific all out efforts. Never done specific PB work.)


How many hours can you commit? 21pw

How good is your nutrition? 8 gels + 750ml High5 Extreme + 1000ml water on bike at Outlaw. (No use of feed-stations) Took on something at every station on run as a precautionary measure. Coke, Banana, Crisps, Jaffa's, High5, water, etc. I have the constitution of an ox!

Any long term injuries/weaknesses? None

What makes me think I can do this?

My swim is improving, albeit more slowly than I'd like. I've not taken it as seriously as I know I must, and am confident of gains here. I treated transitions as something to soak up the atmosphere, and as part of a long day rather than a race, so lots to gain here. I took the third circuit on the bike especially easy to ensure that I had lots left in the tank for the run. Having been 23rd fastest on lap 1 and 30th fastest on lap 2, I was 50th fastest on lap 3. But felt very good. My run included a stop at each aid station. I should have taken the fuel belt. It also included a few shuffles and stops to talk to others including the family. I felt good enough to do another lap, and the masseur commented on how my legs felt very good.


Thanks in advance for all constructive feedback to my request. By all means tell me to stop being so tight and pay for a proper coach! However, the TT input into my Outlaw training was invaluable, and added greatly to my own research and reading.

Smile
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BW




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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should firstly say that I'm not a qualified coach but at the age of 46 won my first IM distance event and a couple of weeks ago went 10:00:07 at IMCH - aged 47.

I've always self-coached - but have had an enormous amount of info. from many TTers.

I'd say you should have no problem at all going sub-10 - all your numbers seem to stack up - everything is in your favour.

As a bit of inspiration have a look at Savaloy's blog over the last couple of years to see what improvements are possible.

As a result of your post I counted up my training hours this year in the build to IMCH - in the 27 weeks before the race (not including my 3 week taper) my average training week was 10hrs 7mins.

I started off on the Fink Competitive Plan last year but dropped it after a couple of weeks and 'did my own thing'.

If you have the desire and motivation and are prepared to soak up information like a sponge you'll nail the sub-10.

BW
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lizzy




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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it is impossible to go sub 10 starting from a 11 hour time. Especially as you have only very few training years behind you. You'd probably get there or thereabouts by just training consistently for another year.

Few things I noticed in your post though: 21 hours per week? Either you are unemployed or loaded and don't have to work. Is this really realistic? I barely manage that sort of volume in a peak week.
Also I find it odd that you're bike HR was higher than run HR for the race. Sounds to me like the pacing wasn't quite right.
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Whisk




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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assume you're targetting Barcelona for your sub-10. Lanza and Forestman would be a big ask to go under 10 hours Wink .

That's quite a heavy racing schedule that you've got lined up there. How are you feeling after the Outlaw? The big unknown for you is going to be how well you recover from all of those races and how quickly you can get back into training again. Swimming and cycling are usually fine for me but it takes a while for me to get back into running again after an IM race. Motivation can also be a bit of a problem after an IM.
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jibberjim




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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lizzy wrote:
Also I find it odd that you're bike HR was higher than run HR for the race. Sounds to me like the pacing wasn't quite right.


Certainly looks a little surprising, to me it suggests poor run training, so unable to run at the "normal" effort for a well paced IM, carrying a lot of extra weight (not from the stats) or as you say, weak pacing with too high on the bike. Of course the average doesn't tell us a lot, a bit of run walk can bring the average down quite a lot without really bringing the overall effort down.

You should easily be able to go sub 10 with a well executed race (the biggest problem with IM targets, the lack of opportunity if you screw up execution) And I agree 21 hours is a lot of training.
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Russ C




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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your stats definitely give you the potential. You've got the time to commit and as Sesel mentioned if you can consistently train towards this goal you've a good chance of achieving it.

Break down the splits you'd need to go sub 10 - say a Swim 1:00, bike 5:25, run 3:25 and a little extra for faster transitions. That's what you need to be working towards - you can tweak the numbers to favour particular disciplines a little of course.

As others have mentioned your run fitness and bike pacing could be issues to deal with. You're going to need to be able to do a 5:25 bike comfortably enough to run under 3:30 off the back of it. I'd look to work on your run fitness a fair bit over the next year.

You've got the training time available it seems.
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McC




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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Willy wrote:
I'd say you should have no problem at all going sub-10 - all your numbers seem to stack up - everything is in your favour.


jibberjim wrote:
lizzy wrote:
Also I find it odd that you're bike HR was higher than run HR for the race. Sounds to me like the pacing wasn't quite right.


Certainly looks a little surprising, to me it suggests poor run training, so unable to run at the "normal" effort for a well paced IM, carrying a lot of extra weight (not from the stats) or as you say, weak pacing with too high on the bike. Of course the average doesn't tell us a lot, a bit of run walk can bring the average down quite a lot without really bringing the overall effort down.

You should easily be able to go sub 10 with a well executed race (the biggest problem with IM targets, the lack of opportunity if you screw up execution) And I agree 21 hours is a lot of training.


Thanks all. The run included 22 stops through stations and family which brought my HR down and also added to my thoughts that sub-10 was within my reach. The 21 hours is based on 4.15am starts and a couple of longer sessions at the weekend, and an evening at the gym for strength training. This minimises impact on the family and still enables a normal working week. However, that's what's available if I need it to reach my goal and I'm happy if people think less could work for me too.

whisk wrote:
That's quite a heavy racing schedule that you've got lined up there.


As far as next season is concerned, I'm only signed up for Lanza and this thread is part of my deciding whether to defer the T-shirt collection for a bit whilst I explore my potential for speed. (Let's not get into that debate!)

whisk wrote:
How are you feeling after the Outlaw?


After The Outlaw I spent the Monday morning in Sherwood Pines at Go Ape! with my 9 - (I mean 10!) - year old son climbing ladders, swinging through tree's and descending zip-wires with no more aches than a 'normal' Monday after a long run on a Sunday. I have struggled all week NOT to go out training, and haven't, so can't report how I feel on the bike/run since from an informed position. I'm out for a long one in the morning though.... Very Happy
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BW




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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forget the DIM - start training hard and smart and get a sub 9 nailed - don't set your sights so low Laughing

Good luck - I'll be watching...

BW
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