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tin pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2592
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:06 pm    Post subject: Volume not intensity Reply with quote

Right - screw that short, intense, regular training for a game of soldiers! Itís useless! Wink

Iíve looked back to my best season, 2016, and replicating the training I did then.

Swim twice a week 6-8km total
Cycling 200-300km per week
Running 20-30km per week

No run intervals for the rest of summer! Smile All easy running except for the hills.

Bike will be all around the 45km +600m commute in, and again home.

Swim intervals can Sod Off too. Get in, get 4K done, get on with life. Boom.

What could go wrong? Hahaha Laughing

Iím going to tear Hever a new arsehole in September. Twisted Evil
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duckhen




Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 197
Location: Herts

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Volume not intensity Reply with quote

tin pot wrote:
Right - screw that short, intense, regular training for a game of soldiers! Itís useless! Wink

Iíve looked back to my best season, 2016, and replicating the training I did then.

Swim twice a week 6-8km total
Cycling 200-300km per week
Running 20-30km per week

No run intervals for the rest of summer! Smile All easy running except for the hills.

Bike will be all around the 45km +600m commute in, and again home.

Swim intervals can Sod Off too. Get in, get 4K done, get on with life. Boom.



What could go wrong? Hahaha Laughing

Iím going to tear Hever a new arsehole in September. Twisted Evil



Was just browsing looking for an answer to a question around basic speed and saw this......so hows it been going and is a new arse still going to get arranged?

I think some people respond better to steady state ......pushing threshold up from below.........some need the intervals to be more intense.....pulling threshold up from above. Either way you need the endurance.
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tin pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:55 am    Post subject: Re: Volume not intensity Reply with quote

duckhen wrote:
tin pot wrote:
Right - screw that short, intense, regular training for a game of soldiers! Itís useless! Wink

Iíve looked back to my best season, 2016, and replicating the training I did then.

Swim twice a week 6-8km total
Cycling 200-300km per week
Running 20-30km per week

No run intervals for the rest of summer! Smile All easy running except for the hills.

Bike will be all around the 45km +600m commute in, and again home.

Swim intervals can Sod Off too. Get in, get 4K done, get on with life. Boom.



What could go wrong? Hahaha Laughing

Iím going to tear Hever a new arsehole in September. Twisted Evil



Was just browsing looking for an answer to a question around basic speed and saw this......so hows it been going and is a new arse still going to get arranged?

I think some people respond better to steady state ......pushing threshold up from below.........some need the intervals to be more intense.....pulling threshold up from above. Either way you need the endurance.


Feels good and is enjoyable so far. The heat and a surfing injury has curtailed things a bit, but still within the ball park..

Only difference is that Iím doing three shorter swims per week and would like to have done more bike.

The challenge is to reduce the intensity in the bike. Iíve got a commute this morning I got at about 80% needs to be down below 70% for race prep.
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Iron Ď17 16h11, '16 14h30
Half Iron Ď18 DNF, '17 7h39, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10K Ď18 50:31 '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think swimming 'little and more often' will benefit you. I'm not sure why you wouldn't do some intervals in your swimming, at least to break-up the monotony. I do a lot of my threshold/intensity work in my swims, to make it less boring, and because the recovery component is less than the other two imho.

Whilst enjoying it is the main thing, at some point you may wonder why people doing less volume are going quite a lot faster than you. Two reasons: intensity and BMI. Oh actually, I forgot to add bike position.

You will get there. But for the time being, could you post another bike fit thread Very Happy Wink
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hammerer
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swimming long continuous sets just causes fatigue and forces you to swim with poor form and slowing ingraining it. You'll eventually get injured. No one ever swam well by just doing 3-4k straight swims.

As for only going easy. Yes this can have a place as part of a balanced trainign program and can work in the short term but you really need to train all energy systems throughout the year or you will be good at going slowly and hit a plateau.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As well as intervals, try something like a 'Pyramid' in your training (aka Russian Steps - for some reason). So:

100/200/300/400/300/200/100 - nice round mile. See if you can swim the second 3/2/100 faster than the first. Mentally the set gets easier after the 400, and you can physically push as a result Cool

Use the same approach on the bike trainer & runs.
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tin pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
No one ever swam well by just doing 3-4k straight swims.

I did...relative to myself. 33min half and 1h13 full on basically just jumping in the lake and doing 4000m. Since Iíve followed interval pool sets, 36min and 1h18.

And as I said above, Iím not doing the long easy swim sets.

Anyway, thereís a really smart chap who has posted a really interesting swim thread on FB.

@Jorgan
BMI? Tsk tsk tsk...
A bike fit thread, now thereís an idea..!
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Iron Ď17 16h11, '16 14h30
Half Iron Ď18 DNF, '17 7h39, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10K Ď18 50:31 '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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hammerer
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tin pot wrote:
hammerer wrote:
No one ever swam well by just doing 3-4k straight swims.

I did...relative to myself. 33min half and 1h13 full on basically just jumping in the lake and doing 4000m. Since Iíve followed interval pool sets, 36min and 1h18.

And as I said above, Iím not doing the long easy swim sets.

Anyway, thereís a really smart chap who has posted a really interesting swim thread on FB.

@Jorgan
BMI? Tsk tsk tsk...
A bike fit thread, now thereís an idea..!


You should ask yourself more questions about your program. So why exactly did your swim go backwards? what changed between the years? what were the differences between sessions? what was the frequency and intensity of the sessions. When did you do the sessions in the day and what did you do to address your stroke during that time?
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tin pot wrote:
Anyway, thereís a really smart chap who has posted a really interesting swim thread on FB.

@Jorgan
BMI? Tsk tsk tsk...


The same guy who said he wasn't going to swim intervals on here, who posts an interval set he's just done today on FB? Laughing

Ignore the I in BMI.
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tin pot




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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pfft. I said that in July, keep up!

I did a turbo session on Monday, but we wonít talk about that either Wink Wink
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Iron Ď17 16h11, '16 14h30
Half Iron Ď18 DNF, '17 7h39, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10K Ď18 50:31 '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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hammerer
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yes we forgot. tinpot the guy that asks for advice, totally ignores it and does the opposite, then one week later changes his mind again Laughing
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tin pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
Oh yes we forgot. tinpot the guy that asks for advice, totally ignores it and does the opposite, then one week later changes his mind again Laughing


Bingo! Just like a real person, but on The Interwebs Smile

Anyway this thread is a statement of intent, not asking for advice.
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Iron Ď17 16h11, '16 14h30
Half Iron Ď18 DNF, '17 7h39, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10K Ď18 50:31 '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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duckhen




Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 197
Location: Herts

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swimming is by far the most technical of the elements. Personally I swim OK and go around 65-70 mins on an IM swim...avoiding the biff and 'cruising' at a fairly good pace. I have a good friend who teaches TI and has often offered to help me out. However I decline because I am not prepared to go slower to potentially get faster.
I am not against interval training but I don't think it is always how I want to train.
Stick to your plan Tinpot and good luck,
The BBAR was won many times by a chap who only did sweet spot work.....lots of it mind
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duckhen wrote:
Swimming is by far the most technical of the elements. Personally I swim OK and go around 65-70 mins on an IM swim...avoiding the biff and 'cruising' at a fairly good pace. I have a good friend who teaches TI and has often offered to help me out. However I decline because I am not prepared to go slower to potentially get faster.
I am not against interval training but I don't think it is always how I want to train.
Stick to your plan Tinpot and good luck,
The BBAR was won many times by a chap who only did sweet spot work.....lots of it mind


it's the one where you do need a level of technique to get started, but it isn't the most technical one by far...
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duckhen




Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 197
Location: Herts

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry should have added an 'in my opinion' or similar line which shows it is only my thoughts not a widely accepted theory.
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