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Bodge
Joined: 13 Jul 2011
Posts: 147
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 Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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This is my first season, got my third ppol sprint tomorrow. I'm in my late forties and have pretty much taught myself FC this year.
I had a couple of 121 lessons, they told me to enter thumb first, s shape pull etc, and I didn't know any better.
Since then I've just been practicing alone. Can do bi lateral breathing reasonably for a beginner.
Since then I've been devouring the swim threads on here, and following SwimSmooth.
I started a Masters club this week at my local pool. Was told I have good technique for a beginner, and they don't do the thumb first thing, so I'm happy with that. Lots of flaws, but the things that can be fixed easily for some quick gains.
I need these gains though, as I'm currently around 10 mins for 400m.
Tomorrow's sprint will tell me where I'm at in race conditions, as I tend to pace myself too steadily to ensure that I finish comfortably when I'm training.
If I get a swim time with a 9 at the front I'll be happy, and will then hit the Masters training throughout the winter 
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Poet
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 9990
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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So you joined Uni TC in the end and not BRAT? Bristol/Bath?
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blatchcorn
Joined: 07 Aug 2011
Posts: 758
Location: Dining in hell
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Poet wrote: | | So you joined Uni TC in the end and not BRAT? Bristol/Bath? |
No I haven't - my uni does not have a tri club. I am just going to go to my uni's swimming lessons and coaching and I think I will join bathamphibians tri club for when I am at home.
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SteveI
Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 1389
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Bodge wrote: | | ...they don't do the thumb first thing... |
It's funny, this strength of feeling about thumb first. I have a video I filmed at 2005 Masters nationals, of Andy Manley swimming 100m free in 50.69. He held the 30-34 age group World Record for a while with 50.24. He enters very thumb first. I guess he doesn't know much about how to swim fast 
Don't get me wrong, it may well not be optimal. But it's down at the level of miniscule gains compared to the important stuff like having your body travel nice and straight and level through the water.
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hammerer
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 16462
Location: Right Next Door To Hell
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| SteveI wrote: | | Bodge wrote: | | ...they don't do the thumb first thing... |
It's funny, this strength of feeling about thumb first. I have a video I filmed at 2005 Masters nationals, of Andy Manley swimming 100m free in 50.69. He held the 30-34 age group World Record for a while with 50.24. He enters very thumb first. I guess he doesn't know much about how to swim fast
Don't get me wrong, it may well not be optimal. But it's down at the level of miniscule gains compared to the important stuff like having your body travel nice and straight and level through the water. |
The exception that proves the rule  to be fair I bet when it was the normal practice they were still quick. One thing is for us "non" swimmers these little things can lead to big things I.e. bad entry could result in crossing centre line and the snaking down the pool. By concentrating on middle finger forwards it can mean ARM enters straight so body position greatly improved.
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Jordie
Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 399
Location: Rayleigh, Essex
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Bodge wrote: | I had a couple of 121 lessons, they told me to enter thumb first, s shape pull etc, and I didn't know any better.
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I just did a group swim and one guy put his thumb in first & the instructor said that's how club swimmers were taught years ago but it can cause shoulder injurys, most people put the hand straight in now
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blatchcorn
Joined: 07 Aug 2011
Posts: 758
Location: Dining in hell
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| How realistic is it for me to be able to improve enough to be a middle-of-the-pack swimmer in time for next season?
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SmallAngryMan
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1435
Location: London
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| blatchcorn wrote: | | How realistic is it for me to be able to improve enough to be a middle-of-the-pack swimmer in time for next season? |
Depends on the standard of race you enter. MOP should be doable with some proper regular coaching and hard work.
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Fuzzy Dunlop
Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 3098
Location: In my kitchen making a secret sauce...
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| SmallAngryMan wrote: | | blatchcorn wrote: | | How realistic is it for me to be able to improve enough to be a middle-of-the-pack swimmer in time for next season? |
Depends on the standard of race you enter. MOP should be doable with some proper regular coaching and hard work. |
Aim for 7.xx for your 400m - that should be middle of the pack. You may, like me, go significantly faster in a wetsuit which might get you round an open water 1500m in 26 minutes. Again, middle of the pack in a decent quality race. Nearer the front if not so high quality.
The free swim smooth iPhone video is great. I sometime simply take a look at this before I jump in the pool.
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hammerer
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 16462
Location: Right Next Door To Hell
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| Fuzzy Dunlop wrote: | | SmallAngryMan wrote: | | blatchcorn wrote: | | How realistic is it for me to be able to improve enough to be a middle-of-the-pack swimmer in time for next season? |
Depends on the standard of race you enter. MOP should be doable with some proper regular coaching and hard work. |
Aim for 7.xx for your 400m - that should be middle of the pack. You may, like me, go significantly faster in a wetsuit which might get you round an open water 1500m in 26 minutes. Again, middle of the pack in a decent quality race. Nearer the front if not so high quality.
The free swim smooth iPhone video is great. I sometime simply take a look at this before I jump in the pool. |
what this man said. I was knocking out a 7:20 after year of swimming and coming mid pack. It would have been quicker had i got decent help earlier. I found the next step the hardest. Getting below 7...now I've stagnated again at 6:30 for about a year but I have been swimming once a week mainly and usually endurance due to IM training getting in the way. This winter is a focus and I recon I could knock that close to 6 in 6months of hard focus. The trick to swimming once you've had help is be regular. once a week isn't enough. You spend half the session getting used to being wet again and you never improve. 5*30mins is better than 2*1hr+ for example.
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Bodge
Joined: 13 Jul 2011
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Jordie wrote: | | Bodge wrote: | I had a couple of 121 lessons, they told me to enter thumb first, s shape pull etc, and I didn't know any better.
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I just did a group swim and one guy put his thumb in first & the instructor said that's how club swimmers were taught years ago but it can cause shoulder injurys, most people put the hand straight in now |
I was coming at this from a shoulder injury prevention perspective, not from more speed.
And I got out of the pool in 9:58 on Sunday, so hit my target I focussed on smooth and comfortable and got just that. I know that with a bit more practice, and better touch turns I can easily get 30 seconds off that, for probably not much more effort.
Hammerer is dead right about getting in the pool often.
I've just started with the local Masters club, so hoping to get an 8 at the front next year.
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dalkiin
Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Posts: 1956
Location: dropped by the peloton
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| SteveI wrote: | | Bodge wrote: | | ...they don't do the thumb first thing... |
It's funny, this strength of feeling about thumb first. I have a video I filmed at 2005 Masters nationals, of Andy Manley swimming 100m free in 50.69. He held the 30-34 age group World Record for a while with 50.24. He enters very thumb first. I guess he doesn't know much about how to swim fast
Don't get me wrong, it may well not be optimal. But it's down at the level of miniscule gains compared to the important stuff like having your body travel nice and straight and level through the water. |
I think that it may even be optimal, but unless you have been swimming since you were 5yrs old you are unlikely to be able to handle the shoulder rotation to get there without it compromising your stroke elsewhere or it giving you grief.
I noticed Becky Addlington hyper-extending her fingers forwards above the water which for her probably means her hand entry is even more efficient, but if I tried it would mean that I'd miss even more of my catch. (If I ever swam, of course.)
An aside on trained contortionism, did anyone notice the awesome amount of shoulder and elbow over-rotation in the javelin slow-mos from the athletic world champs?
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blatchcorn
Joined: 07 Aug 2011
Posts: 758
Location: Dining in hell
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| I got the swimsmooth dvds in the post today. Pretty pleased with it actually - I really like the training programme they provide. I will probably work my way through the 25 sessions until I get back to uni.
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highroad
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Hi all, Ive looked at the swim smooth site and it does look good. However before discovering swimsmooth I came came across "Total Immersion" so I bought the dvd. total perpetual motion. As a result of the dvd I am more than capable of swimming distances fairly comfortably but not quickly. The two styles look very different. Interested to hear thoughts on the differences and suggested better method.
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hammerer
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 16462
Location: Right Next Door To Hell
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| highroad wrote: | | Hi all, Ive looked at the swim smooth site and it does look good. However before discovering swimsmooth I came came across "Total Immersion" so I bought the dvd. total perpetual motion. As a result of the dvd I am more than capable of swimming distances fairly comfortably but not quickly. The two styles look very different. Interested to hear thoughts on the differences and suggested better method. |
Both have their merits. Both promote good efficient freestyle and are more similar than you realise....just different methods of achieving it. If you are efficient you can be fast just avoid too long and too slow a stroke rate. That is where dead spots are created.
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