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How bad at swimming am I?
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hammerer




Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 16326
Location: Right Next Door To Hell

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sloppy pace. what a horrible term. NEVER swim sloppy. Also never swim artificially slow, except by doing reduced stroke rate work. Always keep DPS up, and if doing low stroke rate, you should actually get more distance per stroke, as whats the point swimming if you are just going to use poor form to slip water which you are doing if you cant hold 17 strokes per length and keep pace at well below 2mins a 100

finally, If you cant swim well, don't swim at all. Popov never swam with poor form. Even if he had to get out after 1000m he did but he / soviet team made sure it was always good form, even warm ups and cool downs were done well.
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1309

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd agree with never swimming super slow purposefully. I really don't see the point.

I also got back in the water yesterday for the first time since November. Bursitis in the elbow and general Christmas mayhem was to blame. Whilst it felt super tough, I can still feel most of the form/technique improvements I've made over the past year have held, even with such a prolonged period off.

Decided to simply swim for 1500 and see where I was. Came in at 24:55 which is still pretty quick for me after such a layoff. And nice to know I can still join our clubs "fast" session where you need a <25 1500m.
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Crozza




Joined: 14 Feb 2010
Posts: 2217
Location: Gsy

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
sloppy pace. what a horrible term. NEVER swim sloppy. Also never swim artificially slow, except by doing reduced stroke rate work. Always keep DPS up, and if doing low stroke rate, you should actually get more distance per stroke, as whats the point swimming if you are just going to use poor form to slip water which you are doing if you cant hold 17 strokes per length and keep pace at well below 2mins a 100

finally, If you cant swim well, don't swim at all. Popov never swam with poor form. Even if he had to get out after 1000m he did but he / soviet team made sure it was always good form, even warm ups and cool downs were done well.


dont disagree.

have just started swimming again (after 2 year hiatus Rolling Eyes ) with a squad session and I find that if I dip much below my new, awesome CSS pace of 1:40/100m it gets very difficult to hold form and I get all sinky. means that the whole session is done at some effort, even the w/u and c/d
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Pedro Peru




Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 922
Location: Leeds

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am due another 1km TT to see how I am doing. Previously I haven't used my tempo trainer to help pace it. What's the consensus on using it to help pace these sets?

I don't like using the swim smooth 400m then 200m test, as I feel this gives me to quick a CSS time.
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Crozza




Joined: 14 Feb 2010
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Location: Gsy

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pedro Peru wrote:
I am due another 1km TT to see how I am doing. Previously I haven't used my tempo trainer to help pace it. What's the consensus on using it to help pace these sets?

I don't like using the swim smooth 400m then 200m test, as I feel this gives me to quick a CSS time.


I never used to but I think I would now - too easy to switch off during the middle lengths and I think the TT would help keep you focussed and on pace
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TriSam




Joined: 26 Aug 2011
Posts: 1166
Location: Tunbridge Wells

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For stroke rate or for pacing per length? It's a helpful tool for pacing, but make sure you don't let it hold you back if you've set the beeps at a pace that's too conservative. Good luck!

What's the target for the 1km TT?

I'm planning a 1.5km TT soon, but find it hard to get a good time to do it. Club swim sets are tough because you're going against the grain of everyone else's training session and I'd be overtaking/lapping people frequently, but public sessions are rammed full of breaststrokers!
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Pedro Peru




Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 922
Location: Leeds

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TriSam wrote:
For stroke rate or for pacing per length? It's a helpful tool for pacing, but make sure you don't let it hold you back if you've set the beeps at a pace that's too conservative. Good luck!

What's the target for the 1km TT?

I'm planning a 1.5km TT soon, but find it hard to get a good time to do it. Club swim sets are tough because you're going against the grain of everyone else's training session and I'd be overtaking/lapping people frequently, but public sessions are rammed full of breaststrokers!


Actually Sam you're right I should have been clearer. I meant for pacing. I guess I will set it at a bit faster than last time, which was a while ago, then start with it and try to then gradually get ahead.

I think you're right Crozza.
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hillwall




Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 1729
Location: Norwich

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When pacing with the Tempo Trainer, I like to set it very, very slightly below target so I can swim slightly faster. That way, I can try and get a length up on the beep which is psychologically satisfying for me.

If I set the pace exactly on target, then I find if I start to slack and not reach the end in time, then it becomes far more depressing if you know you are a tiny bit off the pace. It then becomes much harder for me to relax and get back into the right pace again.

So try to pick a scenario which helps you more mentally.
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Pedro Peru




Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 922
Location: Leeds

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not related to anything specific on here but if you haven't seen Tower26 podcast are going to launch a subscription service for swim sessions, not sure what else. Currently there are some available for free so you may find them useful.

http://www.obstri.com/tower26/home/
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Roscoemck




Joined: 10 Aug 2016
Posts: 278
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread scares the cr*p out of me!

I have so much to learn.
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2252
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might have asked this before - does anyone use swim.com?

Are it's analytics useful?
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NoTriBri




Joined: 30 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After 15 months of recovery from 2 shoulder operations & quite a bit of training, I managed to get back to racing in the pool, 2 years after the last effort. Blew the 400 with some silly schoolboy errors & lack of pacing, but was not far off the target pace for my 1500 swim.

Strangely we did a CSS test in the Tri club session this week & my 400 time in a crowded pool, having to wait to the length end to overtake 3 times, was almost 20 seconds quicker than I raced (with a diving start in a clear lane) on Saturday. But more encouragingly only 5 seconds behind my PB from 7 years ago!

Now I have a CSS training pace of 1:24, so thats going to mean some hard training sets in the near future, I had been working on 1:30 per 100m.
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1309

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whilst you have my sympathy for what sounds like 2 years of $hit, when you're talking of a CSS pace of 1.24, that sympathy isn't going to run too deep! Razz

I got a 100m pb as part of a club session this morning. That was a 1.23!

But seriously, congrats on getting back towards your old form. I've had my fair share of injuries from team sports, and know how tough they can be.
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 250
Location: salisbury

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoTriBri wrote:


Now I have a CSS training pace of 1:24, so thats going to mean some hard training sets in the near future, I had been working on 1:30 per 100m.


And I thought I was doing well getting my CSS from 2:03 to 1:50
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TriSam




Joined: 26 Aug 2011
Posts: 1166
Location: Tunbridge Wells

PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoTriBri wrote:
After 15 months of recovery from 2 shoulder operations & quite a bit of training, I managed to get back to racing in the pool, 2 years after the last effort. Blew the 400 with some silly schoolboy errors & lack of pacing, but was not far off the target pace for my 1500 swim.

Strangely we did a CSS test in the Tri club session this week & my 400 time in a crowded pool, having to wait to the length end to overtake 3 times, was almost 20 seconds quicker than I raced (with a diving start in a clear lane) on Saturday. But more encouragingly only 5 seconds behind my PB from 7 years ago!

Now I have a CSS training pace of 1:24, so thats going to mean some hard training sets in the near future, I had been working on 1:30 per 100m.


Well done mate Very Happy What sort of times do you normally hit for a tri swim?

I will have a go at a 1500m TT some point this week as a benchmark. Having done 10x200 last week at ~1:20/100m, I'm going to try for that elusive sub-20!
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