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How bad at swimming am I?
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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 382
Location: Preston

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stennard
Your a good swimmer.

The fact that you ran the first 10 k in a tough hot 70.3 faster than the 10 k in a standard tells you all you need to know. Your tired, comparing swim times in a different environment when you weren't is pretty pointless.

The vast majority of athletes are faster in a suit. That said the points you gave there's something not right.

I'm slow and steady in the swim, 35 min 1.9k the plus side is I've swam the full IM distance in 1:10 which seemed quite easy.

How new is the new suit?
Have you ever has a OW swim that matched your pool times?
Your HR seems very high in the water, is this the same in the pool?
Do you get the panic thing?
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TriSam




Joined: 26 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could be something as simple as your turns in the pool masking your true "swim speed". I have something very similar, in that I am noticeably faster in the pool than OW.

I realised this when I swum long course rather than short course for the first time, and struggled to keep anywhere near my swim partner. It turns out that they're a much faster swimmer than me, but I gain quite a lot at each turn.

This could be due to the strength of the kick off the wall, streamlining, turn speed etc.
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1779

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TriSam wrote:
It could be something as simple as your turns in the pool masking your true "swim speed". I have something very similar, in that I am noticeably faster in the pool than OW.

I realised this when I swum long course rather than short course for the first time, and struggled to keep anywhere near my swim partner. It turns out that they're a much faster swimmer than me, but I gain quite a lot at each turn.

This could be due to the strength of the kick off the wall, streamlining, turn speed etc.

Yep, that is definitely part of it. I've noticed the same thing and in the recent discussions with club mates have used the phrase "turns are flattering my pace". That's even though I open turn rather than tumble.

I do get a similar thing with LCM pools. The Olympic pool in Stratford for example, I am much slower. Yet the 36m pool at Hampton is still longer than SCM and I swam ok there. So whilst I think turns are a part of it, and maybe explains some of the differential between pool pace and OW pace, the fact our club swim coach says I've definitely improved should have meant my OW times, like for like, would be expected to fall.

So I still think there's a OW technique element in there as well that I'm struggling with. Maybe I just need to get back to minimum weekly OW swims like when I first started out. The lack of car access over the past couple of years has hindered that.
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hammerer
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Joined: 19 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TriSam wrote:
It could be something as simple as your turns in the pool masking your true "swim speed". I have something very similar, in that I am noticeably faster in the pool than OW.

I realised this when I swum long course rather than short course for the first time, and struggled to keep anywhere near my swim partner. It turns out that they're a much faster swimmer than me, but I gain quite a lot at each turn.

This could be due to the strength of the kick off the wall, streamlining, turn speed etc.


SCM is much faster than LCM. you only need to check the world records to see by how much!. I always find the cheat suit benefit is countered by the 1sec every 25m benefit from SCM swims.
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tin pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm.

I recently started swimming again in a 33m pool, and despite a couple of months off seem to be faster than in my old 25m pool.

What’s LCM/SCM stand for? Long course...?
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
Hmm.

I recently started swimming again in a 33m pool, and despite a couple of months off seem to be faster than in my old 25m pool.

What’s LCM/SCM stand for? Long course...?


Maybe your maths got worse during your time out?
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hammerer
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
Hmm.

I recently started swimming again in a 33m pool, and despite a couple of months off seem to be faster than in my old 25m pool.

What’s LCM/SCM stand for? Long course...?


long course metres / short course metres

(or you could have SCY short course yards popular in the US)

Pools are different. Depth, temp, the sides and how the energy of the waves is dispersed and just the amount of chemicals used can all have an effect.
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tin pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

twhat wrote:
Tin Pot wrote:
Hmm.

I recently started swimming again in a 33m pool, and despite a couple of months off seem to be faster than in my old 25m pool.

What’s LCM/SCM stand for? Long course...?


Maybe your maths got worse during your time out?


Could be - I switched from swim.com to the native apple app as it could handle the unusual length. So maybe there is inconsistency between them.
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Jgav




Joined: 06 Dec 2016
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swimming is finally starting to progress, worked on head position whilst breathing and getting my buoyancy and core working better.

200m time has dropped from 4+ mins to 3.40. Managed to hold that pace over 4 x 200m. Swam a flat out 100m in 1.42. Still don't get how people how much faster pace for long swims!
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coming back to my "being $hite in OW" post, I have made some progress at least.

I think the turns are definitely an element. So I'm making an effort to get to a lake at least once a week for some extended swims. I think that's already making a bit of a difference.

The other big thing I realised, on some self analysis, was that the mass start effect was seriously damaging my performance. I was overcooking myself in the first 100m and that was causing a rather dramatic decline in pace over the second half of swims. I did Deva Olympic a couple of weekends ago, and deliberately positioned myself away from the bunch and made no effort to find anyone to draft.

On the face of it, my time was even slower than Southport, but that swim is more than 50% against the current of the river. Comparing times against everyone in my AG who did both Southport and Deva, and I had the smallest increase in swim time of anyone. I even beat someone who put 3mins into me at Southport. I go into more in-depth analysis in my race report (about 2/3 of the way down), but I thought I'd at least feedback that pacing would appear to be a massive factor.
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Made a return to swimming myself yesterday. Have a bad back and i cant run Sad
Pretty much 4 years off and i was surprised how much i 'remembered'. Peak swim for me back in the day i was holding 1.40/100 over 1500m and yesterday 300m warm up, 300m drills 200m build and then 1k at 1.45/100 without too much trouble. I felt pretty conscious of where technique was letting me down too so if i can get 3 visits a week in for a while it would be interesting to see if i could get my times back down to anywhere near my modest pbs.
I swam at 08.30 on sunday morning... was lucky enough to have a lane to myself at my local David lloyd, despite them comandeering first the fast and then the medium lane for swimming lessons. #getupearlier

With regards converting times to OW... well personally this was never a problem, i always seemed to be faster in a wetsuit which i guess says something about my own limitations. I certainly struggled when converting a 25m to 50m pool but jump in a lake or the sea and i always seemed to outperform. Conversely i am one of the few people i ever found who is slower with a pullbouy than without.
Hoping to keep up with this new swim thing but tbh, if my back heals, i'll probably be out running again, its just soooo much easier to fit into life.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the SCM/LCM and OW swimming thing. Yes, if your turns are good, you're hopefully swimming <20m a length in SCM, hence the fast times!
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
On the SCM/LCM and OW swimming thing. Yes, if your turns are good, you're hopefully swimming <20m a length in SCM, hence the fast times!


Yep... the drop off in times i experienced when swimming at the Olynpic pool would certainly suggest i was swimming 10m further per 100m !
I'm only really a relatively new adopter of tumble turns but they do seem to help too. I wouldnt say i was particularly good at them and feel very nervous flipping in a busy lane but the overall flow to the session just feels so much better than when doing open turns.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ the only thing with tumble-turns is that you are more oxygen deprived during the process; unlike a grab turn where you take a big gulp!
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
^^ the only thing with tumble-turns is that you are more oxygen deprived during the process; unlike a grab turn where you take a big gulp!


I have been known to sneak a quick extra breath in before flipping from time to time...
And i tend to breathe immediately after the glide, which i know tends to slow you a bit...
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