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The sub-17/18 min 5k thread
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finbar




Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 3015
Location: The Dark Peak

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a big difference between 17 minutes and 18 minutes!

It seems like it for me anyway, as i'm perenially stuck around 17.30.

My PB is 17m28s set back in December, after a really solid couple of months training i ran... 17m31s Mad
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jeffm




Joined: 01 Jan 2010
Posts: 1454

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="finbar"]There's a big difference between 17 minutes and 18 minutes! [\quote]

About a minute difference!

But in all seriousness 18mins is easy in comparison to getting under 17. It's surprising how much a difference of 5 or 10seconds a kilometre change in pace can be.
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2 scheds




Joined: 28 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For my 19:10 last summer I was averaging around 20-25km per week split over 3 sessions per week.

Made up of 2 x 6.5km intervals (4 mins on/4mins recvoery) and a longer threshold session of around 10km.


Through the winter I've added an additional 6.5km interval session to this which I have been doing as a double run, in the afternoon following my morning threshold session.


I have a 1/2 marathon in a few weeks at which I'm gunning for sub 1:30


Once that's out of the way I'm switch back to my 3 session pattern to keep the run ticking over while I up my swim and bike efforts.

5km in June, so I plan to hit the track at the start of may. The 1600m reps sound.... interesting... Twisted Evil
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YKK




Joined: 23 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Post ironman, pre sub 3 hour marathon training last year I ran three park runs, 19:15, 19:35 and 19:30.

I went for the slow/steady approach to marathon training, maxing out at 70 miles in a week. With very little speed work and nothing at all over 6 minute miles.

Two weeks after the marathon (where I acheived my goal) I ran 18:13, ( I expected to be quicker and was aiming for somwhere under 19 but not that much). That was on a reasonably hilly course so possibly under 18 on a flat course/track?

So it can work the slower approach as well, but you need to enjoy running and enjoy running along way. (Admitedly though I am not under sub 1Cool
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ironchimp




Joined: 27 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YKK wrote:
Post ironman, pre sub 3 hour marathon training last year I ran three park runs, 19:15, 19:35 and 19:30.

I went for the slow/steady approach to marathon training, maxing out at 70 miles in a week. With very little speed work and nothing at all over 6 minute miles.

Two weeks after the marathon (where I acheived my goal) I ran 18:13, ( I expected to be quicker and was aiming for somwhere under 19 but not that much). That was on a reasonably hilly course so possibly under 18 on a flat course/track?

So it can work the slower approach as well, but you need to enjoy running and enjoy running along way. (Admitedly though I am not under sub 1Cool


Similar to me - I hit my 19's in my marathon build up (didn't get my sub 3 though!).

Wonder whats the best way to indicate sub 18 is on the way - key sessions/ targets - or is it best to keep hammering away at parkruns/5k runs?
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dhcm




Joined: 26 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran one 5K last year (end of tri-season) in 18.31 off limited 5K/10K specific training (injuries...) If I ever get a good few months where I can sustain high intensity run training my target will be 17.30.
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Crozza




Joined: 14 Feb 2010
Posts: 2217
Location: Gsy

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WM=SS wrote:
What sort of stuff will you be doing over the next couple of months to try and dip inside 17 mins?


losing weight will net my biggest gains

I have had a very patchy period of training, so just some consistency would be nice. In terms of specifics, I am a member of the local athletics club and we get an email from our coach every week with sessions for Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. Our endurance group is coached by a potential Olympian (and sub 13:30 5k runner!) and our training tends to target whatever races are coming up, but generally 3k-10k, with some 1/2 mara stuff too.

The week looks very roughly like this:
Tues - track/hills. shorter, fast reps
Thurs - steady run, maybe some tempo
Sat - longer reps, maybe hills or XC, maybe some tempo too

By way of illustration this week's session are:
Tues:10x70s @5k pace, 45 secs recovery.
4 mins recovery - jog slow lap
6x70s @3k pace, 45 secs recovery
4 mins recovery jog slow lap
4x70s @1500m pace, 45 secs recovery
(this was my first track session in nearly 6 months, and an absolute beast with the pace and short recoveries)

Thurs: 10 miles steady, 6x100m strides at finish

Sat: 5x4 min hill reps, jog down recovery

I tend to join the group for Tuesday's session
Thursday is a bike day for me where I am often doing reps of between 6-20 mins, and seems to replace the running session quite well
Sat I will do the set session on my own, or something else like 6x1 mile, 10x1k

In a perfect week I would do (running wise)
Mon - 45-60 mins easy (6-9 miles, 6:30-7:30 pace)
Tues - track/hills
Weds - 45-60 mins easy
Sat - reps
Sun - in summer maybe 30 mins running off long bike

well you did ask!
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Tigga




Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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Location: In the New Forest.. dodging Donkeys

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's a 5km only you're trying to improve on, without the biking, then speedy sessions are sometimes good. I personally don't see a point to anything that is just so much than race pace that it's a sheer speed workout.
As a multisporter... and running my best ever running times, I only ever ran one session a week. All my other running was steady, no tempo, no hills. Intensity is hard to recover from, and proper speed workouts at a 1500m pace needs to be built up to over time.

What Crozza has done there as a first session in 6 months is just pure bonkers? Well it's certainly not something I'd do or advise either. The only time I run a session like that, is trying to peak for an event where those 5-10secs count.

I spent the best part of 15 years racing 5-10km events, from pure running to duathlon even the odd triathlon, and during those years I'd be on the track weekly. Sessions varying, but there is one thing I learned early on. If I went and did a session at or faster than my 1500m time, my 5km time did not improve. My biggest gains were made by longer efforts, some with short rest, some with a running recovery and very seldom faster than 5km race pace.

I've set many a sessions for many people in my time and biggest success and improvement I see is in pyramid work and when it's longer reps off short recover at between 5 and 10km pace. When you can run a sessions that are built up to 10km of hard running at slightly faster than your 10km race pace with recovery runs of less than 25% of hard running time, then you know it's time for a couple of weeks of 400's off a short rest at 5km pace or a little quicker, and bam... you'll have yourself a 5km PB!
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Crozza




Joined: 14 Feb 2010
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Location: Gsy

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tigga wrote:
What Crozza has done there as a first session in 6 months is just pure bonkers? Well it's certainly not something I'd do or advise either. The only time I run a session like that, is trying to peak for an event where those 5-10secs count.


might be worth a little context. Whilst it was my first time on the track in 6 months, I have still been doing hills and some 5k pace stuff off the track, so was not completely cold. plus I have been doing track work consistently for 5 years

The sessions are set for pure runners (although a lot of triathletes go along too). Outside of that session they will be doing lots of steady/easy runs too

we very rarely do 1500m/3k pace work. we will now start to do a lot of 5k pace work (7x800m, 16x400m stuff like that). so over-distance at 5k pace, off varying recoveries.

Tuesday's session I think was minded towards the fact that a few people are targeting the inter-counties XC in a couple of weeks and wanted to get their speed up after a winter of hills and steady runs
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AJ




Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 221
Location: St Albans

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blimey, just been out for a few hours and came back to plenty of interesting stuff- It is interesting to hear from other people who are in a situation to me...It is true that 17 mins seems to be an entirely different class to 18 mins, the leap between the two seems to be really tough for a lot of people to achieve! Another question: How do people's 'pure' 5k/10k run times compare to their run splits off the bike?
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Grifter




Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 615
Location: Treading water

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is just the ticket for me. My 5k PB is 17:33 but would love to get under 17. Be keen to hear what sort of distances/speeds sub-17 people are doing in training. Currently marathon training so not sure I'm geared to it at present but it is definitely on my 'to do' list for this season.
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lonestar




Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 3578
Location: Lead Farming Mutherfuker

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

subscribed
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K.




Joined: 01 Nov 2005
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Location: Team TriActive

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ran Falkirk park run at the weekend which is a pretty tough course in 19.08 - this is after about 6 weeks of steady run training with no real speed work. I reckon if I do some speed work and hard hill reps I could get this down to 18.30.

That said if I did a flat 5k I could definitely go sub 18 without too much more work than I'm doing at present. The point is though that the course you choose co UHF have a significant impact on your times.
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tri_bore




Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 871
Location: Sydney, Oz.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i would also agree that going from 18 to 17 is quite a decent improvement, unless you are barely running and doing zero speed work

nominally i am in, tho when i ever get a chance run a 5km RACE i dont know. maybe a 10km and take a split....

did a 5km as part of a sprint tri last month. 18.4x IIRC. hilly 3 lap x country loop. would hope to go sub 17.30 standalone, but wouldnt like to bet my last quid on it
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stu l-p




Joined: 27 May 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sub 18 is my "head" run goal for this year, although my "heart" target is sub 17.30 Smile . Did 18.29 last year on a road TT course I use.

This winter I've done 1 one hour run per week in December, added a 30min XC timed course in January and then a hard 30min short hills session in February. I'll start the Furman First 12 week 5k programme in March.

I managed 19:15 a couple of weeks ago, which is 45 secs quicker than this time last year Very Happy

Good luck everyone Exclamation
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