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The sub-17/18 min 5k thread
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TriSam




Joined: 26 Aug 2011
Posts: 1244
Location: Tunbridge Wells

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would love to go sub-16 this year, but need to get some extra mileage in. I've been averaging 23.4 miles per week over the last 8 weeks Shocked

I've never done a race around Battersea Park before, but it was a really quick course. Thoroughly recommended to anyone of any ability. The only tiny part that wasn't 100% perfect for speed is the left turn onto Carriage Drive West, which you do twice. It's a 90 degree turn, and there is a lot of gravel spread onto the road so if you're really motoring can be a bit sketchy.
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1585
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right. So the sub 17 target starts again here.

Two silly ultras out of the way and i'm not (completely ) broken, so i can start focussing on the shorter stuff for a couple of months.

Somehow managed to incite a running club parkrun smackdown on Saturday, and i'm about to get my a$$ properly whooped! The guys are all in mid season shape ... i'm in off season shape! But, it's always good to test yourself. There'll be 6/7 runners all in and around that sort of time, so a pretty competitive field (for a small seaside town).

In all seriousness a sub 18 would be a good result this weekend, but i'd be hoping to knock on the door of the sub 17 in a month, so that will be the interim target to try and keep myself motivated with no races in the diary now. trying to to get a balance of just enjoying myself without completely losing the discipline, focus and motivation (and thus fitness) that gets me through.
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JeffB




Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 1229
Location: Middlesbrough

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerbongo wrote:
Right. So the sub 17 target starts again here.

Two silly ultras out of the way and i'm not (completely ) broken, so i can start focussing on the shorter stuff for a couple of months.

Somehow managed to incite a running club parkrun smackdown on Saturday, and i'm about to get my a$$ properly whooped! The guys are all in mid season shape ... i'm in off season shape! But, it's always good to test yourself. There'll be 6/7 runners all in and around that sort of time, so a pretty competitive field (for a small seaside town).

In all seriousness a sub 18 would be a good result this weekend, but i'd be hoping to knock on the door of the sub 17 in a month, so that will be the interim target to try and keep myself motivated with no races in the diary now. trying to to get a balance of just enjoying myself without completely losing the discipline, focus and motivation (and thus fitness) that gets me through.


Sounds like that's going to be an interesting Parkrun on Saturday, just hope noone else goes down with the intention of a top 10!

Sub 17 is a good target, what type of reps are you planning on doing? It might be a bit warm doing them at dinnertime if that's when you are running.

Jeff
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
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Location: Devon

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh i don't have a plan Jeff ... just run around and see what happens! Shocked

I'll get to whatever club track sessions i can and just do whatever is on for that week. TBH when i'm in decent nick, that's about where i should sit naturally, without any dedicated/focussed training. If i properly trained for 5km, i should really improve my PB 15/20 secs. I thought i was in that sort of shape two years ago, but just seemed to suck when it came to racing.
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 1235
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice target GB. I was hoping to break 17.30 at some point this summer and was on course after a 17.41 but a bad back has scuppered me just as i felt set up for it. Going to have a couple of weeks off to try and recover, maybe swim a bit... but mainly watch football and try not to drink too much beer. I have got a 10k on july 8th but for it to be worthwhile turning up to race i'm going to need these back issues to disappear first.
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
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Location: Devon

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck for that Twhat. With this bl00dy heat, that'll be good going if you can hit your target. The pollen, heat and humidity is just beyond ridiculous today, but i cou;dn't help but make the most of my renewed mojo to get quick again.

Went down to PR on Saturday and stumbled over for a 17.58. That's a bout 10secs slower than before my 100, but with the heat i'd say the two were pretty much equivalent. I am therefore taking this as having recovered from the 100 and now just need to get some speed endurance in the bag.

I was struggling even on the first km. My naturally quick leg turnover seems to be lacking and there's just no endurance, so gonna start working on them. I don't think i need 'pure speed' training.

I've just come off the back of 2 x 3km @ tempo-y pace, basically hoping for anything sub 4 (3.57, 3.56, 3.52 and 3.53, 4.07, 3.53). My HR was through the roof and it was just ridiculous. Still, got to start somewhere!

Easy for the rest of the week now before my favourite relay event of the year. A really tricky 3.8km circuit with a bugger of a last 1.5km!
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JeffB




Joined: 04 May 2008
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Location: Middlesbrough

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerbongo wrote:
Good luck for that Twhat. With this bl00dy heat, that'll be good going if you can hit your target. The pollen, heat and humidity is just beyond ridiculous today, but i cou;dn't help but make the most of my renewed mojo to get quick again.

Went down to PR on Saturday and stumbled over for a 17.58. That's a bout 10secs slower than before my 100, but with the heat i'd say the two were pretty much equivalent. I am therefore taking this as having recovered from the 100 and now just need to get some speed endurance in the bag.

I was struggling even on the first km. My naturally quick leg turnover seems to be lacking and there's just no endurance, so gonna start working on them. I don't think i need 'pure speed' training.

I've just come off the back of 2 x 3km @ tempo-y pace, basically hoping for anything sub 4 (3.57, 3.56, 3.52 and 3.53, 4.07, 3.53). My HR was through the roof and it was just ridiculous. Still, got to start somewhere!

Easy for the rest of the week now before my favourite relay event of the year. A really tricky 3.8km circuit with a bugger of a last 1.5km!


What's your usual run cadence GB, if you know it? When I'm trying to run quick mine hovers around 180spm, about 10-15 slower on an easy jog.

And, how did the inter-club smackdown go at the parkrun? Did this help the sub-18

Jeff
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
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Location: Devon

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really, as they all dropped me within 500m!! haha

We packed out the top 10 with 7 Exmouth Harriers, all under 18 mins (i was no. 10) so quite good publicity for the club as we all vested up. Think there were about 20 of us in total running on Saturday.

When i'm going quick my cadence normally hovers around 192, but about 180-184 when i'm cruising. I'd say it's probably a few spm under that at the moment. I know it's fatigue related, as whenever i start to tire i find myself striding out and thus dropping my cadence as i struggle to hang on to a pace.
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jibberjim




Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 8294
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerbongo wrote:
Went down to PR on Saturday and stumbled over for a 17.58. That's a bout 10secs slower than before my 100, but with the heat i'd say the two were pretty much equivalent.

I've just come off the back of 2 x 3km @ tempo-y pace, basically hoping for anything sub 4 (3.57, 3.56, 3.52 and 3.53, 4.07, 3.53). My HR was through the roof and it was just ridiculous. Still, got to start somewhere!


Interesting, were your 3km intervals on the same sort of ground / twistyness as the parkrun? I've only once run under 18 minutes in a 5km, and in that shape running 3km in under 4km would've been just something that happened in most runs.
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1585
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both as flat as a pancake and dead straight!! The heat definitely had an effect, probably worth a few secs/km.

I think the main issue is i've spent the last year on and off training for long distance stuff. So i've spent the core of my ~2,500km probably strolling around at 6-10/km, up big hills, chatting and eating. i can probably count the number of runs in the last year that have averaged under 4/km on one hand. That's why some consistency is required, with at least 2 runs per week going 'quickly'.

4/km really shouldn't be any trouble for me especially, as you have said, for 3km intervals! But that's where i am. The upside (i hope) is that normally my body reacts pretty quickly to a change in stimulus, so a few weeks and i should star to see some decent improvement.
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jibberjim




Joined: 15 Aug 2008
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Location: Kingston

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerbongo wrote:
Both as flat as a pancake and dead straight!! The heat definitely had an effect, probably worth a few secs/km.


Exmouth Beach has the graceful curves reminiscent of Waikiki or Surfer's paradise, it's not straight!

gingerbongo wrote:
4/km really shouldn't be any trouble for me especially, as you have said, for 3km intervals! But that's where i am. The upside (i hope) is that normally my body reacts pretty quickly to a change in stimulus, so a few weeks and i should star to see some decent improvement.


Oh yeah, it'll arrive very quickly, with me running loads of 4:15/km's regularly, I couldn't run an 18 minute 5km, so I can certainly imagine messing around on the very slow stuff would kill it even more.
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i find i have to run with my club to improve/get close to my 5k pb these days. Club nights tend to be things like 5x800m flat out and with a big recovery .. 3 mins or something. Or 12 x 200m flat out, again, reasonably long recovery, i think almost 2mins. The MAMIL ego in me pushes me that bit harder when there are clubmates around. If i use autopause you can see how quickly you run, it can be over 30s/k quicker than 5k pace on the 200s.
If i run intervals on my own they tend to be longer in duration both per rep and overall, but off less recovery.. 6x1k off 90s for example. On these i will be struggling to hit 5k pace, but will be there or thereabouts.
Each have a place i reckon... but it seems you certainly need to run faster to run faster. Who'd have thought eh?

I'm hoping for a blast this weekend actually... been getting a bit fat drinking beer and watching the world cup as my back has stopped me running but i suddenly remembered deep heat/ ibuprofen gel yesterday and it seems to be improving. I have a 10k entry on sunday but its 10.30am so with this hot weather making a pb unlikely i might dodge it and go for one of the (earlier) local parkruns...
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jibberjim wrote:
Oh yeah, it'll arrive very quickly, with me running loads of 4:15/km's regularly, I couldn't run an 18 minute 5km, so I can certainly imagine messing around on the very slow stuff would kill it even more.

Yet conversely, I pb'd at 5k in December having done nothing but longer, generally slower stuff for about 2 months prior. The only speed work had been two single track sessions, and the odd mixed-bag fartlek session.

I went in having no clue how I'd hold 3:30/km, given everything before that had mainly been 4:45-5:00 pace, but ran a 17:25. There's multiple ways to skin a cat as they say.
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
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Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
jibberjim wrote:
Oh yeah, it'll arrive very quickly, with me running loads of 4:15/km's regularly, I couldn't run an 18 minute 5km, so I can certainly imagine messing around on the very slow stuff would kill it even more.

Yet conversely, I pb'd at 5k in December having done nothing but longer, generally slower stuff for about 2 months prior. The only speed work had been two single track sessions, and the odd mixed-bag fartlek session.

I went in having no clue how I'd hold 3:30/km, given everything before that had mainly been 4:45-5:00 pace, but ran a 17:25. There's multiple ways to skin a cat as they say.


I used to be more like that... but i seem to have found peak performance at or around my current pb/ age grading from non specific sessions and seemed to glean the few extra secs last summer from the targeted speedwork as mentioned. There are so many other factors to bring into play though, that in reality it is hard to definitively gauge the most effective sessions and as you say... more than one way to skin a cat. Its nice to still be talking about (if not actually setting) new pbs at 44!!! And if nothing else.. leading out the last set of 800s round the track is a nice boost to my fragile MAMIL ego Very Happy
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely Twhat. I ran a 17.0x the week after London last year off nothing but 5/km mileage, but it was very high mileage. Whereas this year i've been incredibly inconsistent.

And i've never heard of Exmouth being compared to Waikiki before Jim!! Very Happy But yes, it does have a few gentle curves.
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