Tri Talk HomepageTri Talk EventsTri Talk ForumsBlogsTri Talk TrainingTri TradeTriPlayerWikiTeam Tri Talk
employment law advice required

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TriTalk.co.uk Forum Index -> Off-Topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
vlovesbikes




Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:03 pm    Post subject: employment law advice required Reply with quote

Hi. I need to ask if anyone can answer this query I have.
I work shifts, which are 4 on 4 off, days and nights. The company I work for is a limited company and have decided that to save money they are going to stop paying us anything extra for working bank holidays. They have also said they wont give us time off in leu. So , they have said that our government entitlement for holidays is 19.6 days per year (based on us working 12 hour shifts) the bank holidays are included in this and evrn if we work them we wont get any extra money. Is this right? So the office staff who work monday to friday, 9-5 get 28 paid holidays a year and they get the bank hols off.
The problem is if we are rotered to work christmas day, we now have to work it and wont get any extra. Can anyone offer any advice?
_________________
RV racing.co.uk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GrahamO




Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 10127
Location: United Arab Emirates or an airport

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely see your Union rep if you have one .....
_________________
Arguing with engineers is like wrestling in mud with a pig - after a while you realise they like it
newMan : I don't know why you think you can address me like that! Don't ever reply directly to any of my posts again please.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
doug




Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 15100
Location: Harrow (Doonhamer in exile)

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does your contract say about holiday allowance and rates for working on bank holidays ?
_________________
A bear, however hard he tries, grows tubby without exercise. ~A.A. Milne
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Gus




Joined: 07 Sep 2007
Posts: 2512
Location: Freezing my nads off in Aberdoom

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In simple terms it looks like they've changed your T&C's. Generally speaking they can't legally do this without consulting you.
_________________
BLOG now updating again!
In a world where I feel so small, I can't stop thinking big...

My 15 minutes of fame
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
doug




Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 15100
Location: Harrow (Doonhamer in exile)

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theres some advice on the CAB website:

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/work_e/work_rights_at_work_e/basic_rights_at_work.htm

Including:

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/work_e/work_time_off_work_e/bank_and_public_holidays.htm

Quote:
Even if your contract says nothing about bank and public holidays, you may still have the right to have bank and public holidays off in addition to your statutory holiday if it's usual for others at your workplace to be given these days off in addition to their statutory holiday. If you think you are in this situation, get expert advice about what to do.

_________________
A bear, however hard he tries, grows tubby without exercise. ~A.A. Milne
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
lambertsimnel




Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1948
Location: Elvington, North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try the ACAS helpline, I've used them and they are very good:

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2042
_________________
You can do a lot in a lifetime
If you don't burn out too fast
You can make the most of the distance
First you need endurance
First you've got to last...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BMX




Joined: 09 Jul 2009
Posts: 616
Location: On a chair, at a desk..

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The direct.gov website could be a help but on first glance they are saying you are part time and thus get less holiday days.
On average you are working 42 hours a week which doesn't sound part time to me.

Working:
365 days in year/4=91 working periods, you work half of these so, 45.5 x 48 hours = 2184working hours in year / 52 weeks = 42 hours.
_________________
Can I do twice the bike instead of the swim?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hammerer
Site Admin



Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 16553
Location: Right Next Door To Hell

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BMX wrote:
The direct.gov website could be a help but on first glance they are saying you are part time and thus get less holiday days.
On average you are working 42 hours a week which doesn't sound part time to me.

Working:
365 days in year/4=91 working periods, you work half of these so, 45.5 x 48 hours = 2184working hours in year / 52 weeks = 42 hours.


they are not saying he work part time, they are giving him the same number of holiday hours as the others...

20 days a year on a 7hr day is 140hrs over a 12hr day thats 11.6 days rather than 20...add 8 bank holidays and thats your entitlement 19.6days (or 28 for 7hr a day office staff).
_________________
Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BMX




Joined: 09 Jul 2009
Posts: 616
Location: On a chair, at a desk..

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're right, this is where the 19.6 comes from:
https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-holiday-entitlement/y/shift-worker/full-year/12/4/8
_________________
Can I do twice the bike instead of the swim?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
2 scheds




Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 24938
Location: The comeback trail

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocked

Holy crap, yet another reason for me to be thanking my lucky stars that I work where I do...
_________________
People in compression socks shouldn't throw stones - Icehockeyhair 22/10/2013
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chunkytfg




Joined: 19 Jan 2011
Posts: 840
Location: North London

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
BMX wrote:
The direct.gov website could be a help but on first glance they are saying you are part time and thus get less holiday days.
On average you are working 42 hours a week which doesn't sound part time to me.

Working:
365 days in year/4=91 working periods, you work half of these so, 45.5 x 48 hours = 2184working hours in year / 52 weeks = 42 hours.


they are not saying he work part time, they are giving him the same number of holiday hours as the others...

20 days a year on a 7hr day is 140hrs over a 12hr day thats 11.6 days rather than 20...add 8 bank holidays and thats your entitlement 19.6days (or 28 for 7hr a day office staff).


So just checking i've got this right. He gets 19.6 days off per year but each day is 12 hours long. so the 9-5'ers get more 'days' but only because each 'day' is only 7 hours?

Question. How do you take 0.6 of a day off?
Confused

In my job there are guys working doing the same job as myself but working perm nights 5 days a week. OUr shifts are 7.75 hours long and theres are 7. Because we both work a 35hour week they get more 'days' holiday as we only work a 4.6 day week.

In terms of your bank holiday problem i'm not sure how to fix it other than to say that thats unfortunately the side effect of being a shift worker. You sometimes end up working days you dont want to.
_________________
Oultaw 2012= 12.47.28 @17stone

Oly PB=2.47.01 @18.5stone!

Will hopefully one day make 'race weight' !!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hammerer
Site Admin



Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 16553
Location: Right Next Door To Hell

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chunkytfg wrote:
hammerer wrote:
BMX wrote:
The direct.gov website could be a help but on first glance they are saying you are part time and thus get less holiday days.
On average you are working 42 hours a week which doesn't sound part time to me.

Working:
365 days in year/4=91 working periods, you work half of these so, 45.5 x 48 hours = 2184working hours in year / 52 weeks = 42 hours.


they are not saying he work part time, they are giving him the same number of holiday hours as the others...

20 days a year on a 7hr day is 140hrs over a 12hr day thats 11.6 days rather than 20...add 8 bank holidays and thats your entitlement 19.6days (or 28 for 7hr a day office staff).


So just checking i've got this right. He gets 19.6 days off per year but each day is 12 hours long. so the 9-5'ers get more 'days' but only because each 'day' is only 7 hours?

Question. How do you take 0.6 of a day off?
Confused

In my job there are guys working doing the same job as myself but working perm nights 5 days a week. OUr shifts are 7.75 hours long and theres are 7. Because we both work a 35hour week they get more 'days' holiday as we only work a 4.6 day week.

In terms of your bank holiday problem i'm not sure how to fix it other than to say that thats unfortunately the side effect of being a shift worker. You sometimes end up working days you dont want to.


seems about the long and short of it. The op's guys had a similar thing in an old job I was at. they changed shift patterns from 8-12hrs and "lost" holidays. thing is they didnt "lose" as they then get 4 rather than 2 days off every week so its swings and roundabouts. As long as they give you enough notice and your contract allows changes to working times etc (which any decent companies contracts will have provisions for) then its put up or shut up.
_________________
Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pip




Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Posts: 5122
Location: Tooting (hopefully not for much longer)

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have quite a few qualified HR friends if you want me to ask, just pm me (makes a change from me asking for house/building related info)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vlovesbikes




Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys. Thanks for the replies. Its looking like they can include the bank holirays in the statutary holiday pay. Im gutted to be honest. Not so much hecause I want the bank hols off but next year Im down to work christmas day, boxing day and new years day. I wish I could publish who I work for but they will sack and then sue me if they find out.
Last December they made us all redundent and then re-employed us under new job titles with less pay. Since then we've had no contract and Ive changed job roles twice.
I found out today they are forcing part time workers to go on shift or take redundancy.
Pip- thanks for the offer but I am in a union and am going to show them the new contract before I sign it. This is how this new change has come about, they are giving us new contracts. Theres no need to disturb your friends.
I guess I will just have to keep looking for another job . Thanks Smile
_________________
RV racing.co.uk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chunkytfg




Joined: 19 Jan 2011
Posts: 840
Location: North London

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vlovesbikes wrote:
Hi guys. Thanks for the replies. Its looking like they can include the bank holirays in the statutary holiday pay. Im gutted to be honest. Not so much hecause I want the bank hols off but next year Im down to work christmas day, boxing day and new years day. I wish I could publish who I work for but they will sack and then sue me if they find out.
Last December they made us all redundent and then re-employed us under new job titles with less pay. Since then we've had no contract and Ive changed job roles twice.
I found out today they are forcing part time workers to go on shift or take redundancy.
Pip- thanks for the offer but I am in a union and am going to show them the new contract before I sign it. This is how this new change has come about, they are giving us new contracts. Theres no need to disturb your friends.
I guess I will just have to keep looking for another job . Thanks Smile


With all due respect if they are giving you new contracts to sign they can do what they like providing it is lawful which it seems it is.

As I said working shifts can be a pain sometimes and for all the times you end up with a terrible Xmas you'll end up with a great one where you get time off through holidays without actually taking days off.

Its my turn to work Xmas this year myself. It's not nice but someone has to do it.
_________________
Oultaw 2012= 12.47.28 @17stone

Oly PB=2.47.01 @18.5stone!

Will hopefully one day make 'race weight' !!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TriTalk.co.uk Forum Index -> Off-Topic All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1
  Share
 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum





Home | About TT | Privacy Policy | Terms and Conditions | Advertising | Contact TT
Copyright ©2003-2015 TriTalk®.co.uk. All rights reserved.