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Is Margaret Thatcher's legacy positive/negative for Britain?
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Is Margaret Thatcher's legacy positive/negative for Britain?
Positive
67%
 67%  [ 39 ]
Negative
32%
 32%  [ 19 ]
Total Votes : 58

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Shaggy.




Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BikeRide wrote:
If only it had been 25 years earlier.
Milk-Snatcher.


You are an idiot - pure and simple.

Try rising above your political indoctrination long enough to educate yourself on the facts of the situation.

You probably won't bother, so here's a quote from Wiki -

Quote:
She gave priority to academic needs in schools and imposed public expenditure cuts on the state education system, resulting in the abolition of free milk for schoolchildren aged seven to eleven. She held that few children would suffer if schools were charged for milk, but she agreed to provide younger children with a third of a pint daily, for nutritional purposes. Her decision provoked a storm of protest from the Labour party and the press, leading to the moniker "Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher". Cabinet papers of the time reveal that Thatcher opposed the policy but was forced into it by the Treasury.

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Cadence Minge




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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EnduranceUK.com wrote:
http://www.briannew.com/2013/04/the-cult-of-greed.html

My two penneth (for what it's worth!).
From my blog wrote:

On 7th June 1983, two days before the General Election where Thatcher was voted in for the second term, Neil Kinnock’s gave this speech in Bridgend, Glamorgan, rated as one of the finest speeches ever made in British politics. He was later elected leader of the Labour Party at the party conference in October 1983, after Labour’s resounding defeat. He went on to transform the party to make it fit for government and pave the way for Tony Blair.

Today you could substitute the words 'Margaret Thatcher' for 'David Cameron' and 'George Osborne'.

Here is the full text of what he said:

"If Margaret Thatcher is re-elected as prime minister on Thursday, I warn you.
I warn you that you will have pain–when healing and relief depend upon payment.
I warn you that you will have ignorance–when talents are untended and wits are wasted, when learning is a privilege and not a right.
I warn you that you will have poverty–when pensions slip and benefits are whittled away by a government that won’t pay in an economy that can’t pay.
I warn you that you will be cold–when fuel charges are used as a tax system that the rich don’t notice and the poor can’t afford.
I warn you that you must not expect work–when many cannot spend, more will not be able to earn. When they don’t earn, they don’t spend. When they don’t spend, work dies.
I warn you not to go into the streets alone after dark or into the streets in large crowds of protest in the light.
I warn you that you will be quiet–when the curfew of fear and the gibbet of unemployment make you obedient.
I warn you that you will have defence of a sort–with a risk and at a price that passes all understanding.
I warn you that you will be home-bound–when fares and transport bills kill leisure and lock you up.
I warn you that you will borrow less–when credit, loans, mortgages and easy payments are refused to people on your melting income.

If Margaret Thatcher wins on Thursday -
- I warn you not to be ordinary
- I warn you not to be young
- I warn you not to fall ill
- I warn you not to get old."

30 years ago....and the same speech could be made tomorrow!

THAT is Thatcher's legacy!



Not only was it a load of shyte then, it's proven to be a load of shyte since. Not so much in what he was saying but in the presumption that Labour represented a better, longer term, sustainable alternative to each of the above. As another reasonably famous politician once said "However beautiful the strategy [or speech], you should occasionally look at the results"
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BikeRide




Joined: 17 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaggy. wrote:
BikeRide wrote:
If only it had been 25 years earlier.
Milk-Snatcher.


You are an idiot - pure and simple.

Try rising above your political indoctrination long enough to educate yourself on the facts of the situation.

You probably won't bother, so here's a quote from Wiki -

Quote:
She gave priority to academic needs in schools and imposed public expenditure cuts on the state education system, resulting in the abolition of free milk for schoolchildren aged seven to eleven. She held that few children would suffer if schools were charged for milk, but she agreed to provide younger children with a third of a pint daily, for nutritional purposes. Her decision provoked a storm of protest from the Labour party and the press, leading to the moniker "Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher". Cabinet papers of the time reveal that Thatcher opposed the policy but was forced into it by the Treasury.


I doubt you remember the context any better than I do. Your useful reference seems to contradict itself anyway. She 'held' that few children would suffer but was against it - according to your Wiki source.

Get over yourself.
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Shaggy.




Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BikeRide wrote:
I doubt you remember the context any better than I do...


I remember the power-cuts in the early 70's - regularly having to go to bed early with candles. The power cuts being the knock-on effect of industrial action by coal miners leading to dwindling coal stocks and the imposition of the 3-day week.

I remember the winter of discontent, with strike action - sometimes unofficial - resulting in rubbish piling up in the streets, and picket lines blocking patients from entering hospitals. I remember petrol stations being closed, and people being unable to use their cars to get to work. This was a time when inflation was rife - peaking at over 25% - and the government was attempting to control inflation by capping pay rises at 5%.

I remember the IRA bombings, with the shopping centres in London being targeted at Christmas.

I remember the stories told by my brother who worked for London transport in the 1970s. He was always either on strike or working to rule. A manager could not change a light-bulb in their desk lamp, as this was an electricians job. Changing the light bulb could result in a walk-out. It was madness.

It was on the back of the significant decline of the UK economy in the 60s and 70s, with the Government requiring financial aid from the IMF, combined with its inability to negotiate/control the unions - 30 million man days lost to strike action in 1979 (The 2010 figure is 365,300 days lost) - that led to Margaret Thatcher being elected.

I remember the Falkland's war. The memory of the plight of Simon Weston will stay with me for life.

I remember the Brixton riots. The racial tension and the hard-line police tactics.

I remember the poll tax riots. I had just started university and half my friends went down to London for the demonstration. But hardly any of them had any idea regarding the issues involved, and simply went for a laugh.

So if you also remember all that, then you are correct that I don't remember the context any more than you do.
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K.




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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaggy. wrote:
BikeRide wrote:
I doubt you remember the context any better than I do...


I remember the power-cuts in the early 70's - regularly having to go to bed early with candles. The power cuts being the knock-on effect of industrial action by coal miners leading to dwindling coal stocks and the imposition of the 3-day week.

I remember the winter of discontent, with strike action - sometimes unofficial - resulting in rubbish piling up in the streets, and picket lines blocking patients from entering hospitals. I remember petrol stations being closed, and people being unable to use their cars to get to work. This was a time when inflation was rife - peaking at over 25% - and the government was attempting to control inflation by capping pay rises at 5%.

I remember the IRA bombings, with the shopping centres in London being targeted at Christmas.

I remember the stories told by my brother who worked for London transport in the 1970s. He was always either on strike or working to rule. A manager could not change a light-bulb in their desk lamp, as this was an electricians job. Changing the light bulb could result in a walk-out. It was madness.

It was on the back of the significant decline of the UK economy in the 60s and 70s, with the Government requiring financial aid from the IMF, combined with its inability to negotiate/control the unions - 30 million man days lost to strike action in 1979 (The 2010 figure is 365,300 days lost) - that led to Margaret Thatcher being elected.

I remember the Falkland's war. The memory of the plight of Simon Weston will stay with me for life.

I remember the Brixton riots. The racial tension and the hard-line police tactics.

I remember the poll tax riots. I had just started university and half my friends went down to London for the demonstration. But hardly any of them had any idea regarding the issues involved, and simply went for a laugh.

So if you also remember all that, then you are correct that I don't remember the context any more than you do.


I'll bet you feel better for getting that off your chest! Wink

I think we must be similar ages....
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hammerer




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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My mate was in Queen Elizabeth military hospital with Simon Weston. He was not yet 10 and suffered horrific burns and due to the hospital being a specialist in this field and having been set up to cope with the victims on the Sir Galahad he was taken there. He said the screams from those men will haunt him for the rest of his life, although meeting Prince Charles will haunt him longer Wink

I imagine those going on about the Belgrano forget all too conveniently this incident.

I remember the miners strike how the c0ck scargill took them on strike without a full vote of union members, and proceeded to create havoc and civil unrest to get their point across. Maybe they'd have stood a chance without this. I imagine those going on about devasted communitites forget all too conveniently the role he played in destroying those communities
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KingstonGraham




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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaggy. wrote:
BikeRide wrote:
I doubt you remember the context any better than I do...


I remember the power-cuts in the early 70's - regularly having to go to bed early with candles. The power cuts being the knock-on effect of industrial action by coal miners leading to dwindling coal stocks and the imposition of the 3-day week.

I remember the winter of discontent, with strike action - sometimes unofficial - resulting in rubbish piling up in the streets, and picket lines blocking patients from entering hospitals. I remember petrol stations being closed, and people being unable to use their cars to get to work. This was a time when inflation was rife - peaking at over 25% - and the government was attempting to control inflation by capping pay rises at 5%.



Crikey - I'm the same age as you (to within a year) - and don't remember those at all. I remember the summer of 1976, but only because of the drought. Other than that I just remember playing football until it was so dark you couldn't see the ball.
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K.




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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingstonGraham wrote:
Crikey - I'm the same age as you (to within a year) - and don't remember those at all. I remember the summer of 1976, but only because of the drought. Other than that I just remember playing football until it was so dark you couldn't see the ball.


You should have used candles... Wink
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KingstonGraham




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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

K. wrote:
KingstonGraham wrote:
Crikey - I'm the same age as you (to within a year) - and don't remember those at all. I remember the summer of 1976, but only because of the drought. Other than that I just remember playing football until it was so dark you couldn't see the ball.


You should have used candles... ;)


They don't bounce.
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K.




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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingstonGraham wrote:
K. wrote:
KingstonGraham wrote:
Crikey - I'm the same age as you (to within a year) - and don't remember those at all. I remember the summer of 1976, but only because of the drought. Other than that I just remember playing football until it was so dark you couldn't see the ball.


You should have used candles... Wink


They don't bounce.


Fair point. Well made. Smile
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Shaggy.




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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingstonGraham wrote:
I remember the summer of 1976, but only because of the drought. Other than that I just remember playing football until it was so dark you couldn't see the ball.


That was certainly a hot one. My parents were too tight to buy an inflatable pool, so my sister and I each had a plastic washing up bowl filled with cold water. Come to think of it that sounds a bit Steptoe and Son'ish doesn't it Rolling Eyes
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2 scheds




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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaggy. wrote:
KingstonGraham wrote:
I remember the summer of 1976, but only because of the drought. Other than that I just remember playing football until it was so dark you couldn't see the ball.


That was certainly a hot one. My parents were too tight to buy an inflatable pool, so my sister and I each had a plastic washing up bowl filled with cold water. Come to think of it that sounds a bit Steptoe and Son'ish doesn't it Rolling Eyes



Jumpers for goal posts etc.

Laughing
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
I imagine those going on about devasted communitites forget all too conveniently the role he played in destroying those communities
In my case you imagine wrong.

The background to it all is one reason why I think Maggie did a pretty good job, on the whole, remember not only was I a Tory party member back then, when I resigned I sent my resignation to her, and got a considered response. I liked the woman. A lot.
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Shaggy.




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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 scheds wrote:
Shaggy. wrote:
KingstonGraham wrote:
I remember the summer of 1976, but only because of the drought. Other than that I just remember playing football until it was so dark you couldn't see the ball.


That was certainly a hot one. My parents were too tight to buy an inflatable pool, so my sister and I each had a plastic washing up bowl filled with cold water. Come to think of it that sounds a bit Steptoe and Son'ish doesn't it Rolling Eyes



Jumpers for goal posts etc.

Laughing


And glue-sniffing behind the bike sheds - those were the days Wink
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BikeRide




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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, all very nice - but going off the ball. I will address Mr Shaggy's observations.
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