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ITBS 3 weeks from IM
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, the pelvis/hips... the root of all evil. I was told this morning my calf injury is because my pelvis is rotated and shortening the problem leg. Lots of hip mobility exercise needed. At one point when she was applying pressure, I though my breakfast was going to re-appear.
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2Tri




Joined: 20 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what kind of timescale for recovery would I be looking at if I did all exercises twice a day 7 days a week? as in to build muscle strength? is it weeks or months/years? at the moment my knee has a dull ache but nothing too bad, reluctant to run on it tho.
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Ade




Joined: 27 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure Jason at Strength running talked about 5 weeks somewhere in his blog. My memory of hobbling, not running, running with a strap etc. is lost in the mists of time and now this is a maintenance issue. It fixed reasonably fast though once I got into the hips.
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2Tri




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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ive been doing the stretch routine now for 3 days and have been rolling my ITB with my grid roller, the first time I did it I was almost in tears as it was so painful, now each time it still hurts alot but less than the first time.

My outer thigh now aches all the time (like getting a dead leg) and feels sore to touch, is this right? I assume that it will be very sore for a while and feel bruised
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Ade




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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

be careful not to overdo the roller. It is painful while you are on the roller, but you need to relax and breathe deeply on there. Keep it in one spot for 10 seconds when you find a particularly sore bit. It isn't an exercise in mashing your leg up and down against the roller. I would ease back on the rolling a bit by the sounds of things - you might have been a bit too keen! I normally feel 'light and springy' about 5 mins after I've finished, although I'm struggling to remember back to when it was bad as it is now maintenance. Like everything else - some recovery time is good.

there is a good video here

http://www.athletestreatingathletes.com/self-muscle-massage/self-muscle-massage-pt-4-lateral-hip/

remember that this is self-diagnosis at the moment, a couple of sports massage/physio sessions might be worthwhile.
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2Tri




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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks ade, im only doing the roller once a day for around 30 secs to a minute on the ITB as its just too painful. that website is really really useful. Im looking into a decent massage at the moment . Im using the tension bands and have around 5-6 exercises I do daily to improve muscle strength. I havent run for a week now and with frankfurt less than 3 weeks out im reluctant to injure myself and concentrate on strengthening muscles and rolling out the knots, hopefully I wont lose too much run fitness
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Stevep




Joined: 24 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had a cortisone shot last friday,it seems to have done the job,did my first easy run with no pain same with cycling,also got a itb strap that also seemed to work just hope everything stays together for sunday.
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2Tri




Joined: 20 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Need some advice on my knee as im now lost, had itb issues for most of my IM training and had physio/ ultra sound and lots of time off, I did the outlaw hald 3 weeks ago run walk trouble free. I ran last sunday and had to walk home. Last night I barely got 3 miles before I had to walk hm, ive been stretching and doing strengthening exercises shown on this threadb everyday but with germany only 2 weeks away im in need of advice. Should I just bin the running to rest as much as I can before race day?
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Ade




Joined: 27 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3 bits of advice: one physical, 1 mental and what next -

Physical:
at this stage your only sensible option is to get a professional assessment, if you don't know who to see locally then ask on here for recommendations in your area, ask your local run club. You say you had physio before - this guy knows you, what is he telling you? Don't risk permanent damage!!! better to go and support, or 'race' the swim and bike knowing you will DNF on the run but get the experience, fitness and event atmosphere. Do not regard this as a failure, it just might be the better choice.



Mental:
Frankfurt is not a race - it is a day out, your time is the best time you can achieve on that day. Injuries happen - readjust your targets. I don't know your time ambitions but if you take 8 hours to swim and bike that still leaves 9 hours to cover the 26 miles. You can walk it in that - so mentally be ready to jog 2 mins/fast walk 2 mins or something similar if getting the finish is vital. Plan it, prepare it and start it that way - don't run until you fall apart and then start walking - be in control.

Afterwards:
Recover, then think about the injury you were training through, completely rest and recover that injury, than plan your training to re-build your running stronger. My story is similar to yours - lifted running speed and intensity, carried on through injury because events had been entered and paid for. Took 3 months with no running at all, then 6 months of building it back up slowly (including switching from supportive to minimal shoes), lots of mobility work, rowing machine, circuit training, free-weights, cross country, lots of variety in run sessions, TP research and getting to know how to maintain myself and when I should push and when I should rest.

best wishes with it all - whatever happens.
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2Tri




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Ade appreciate the response

The physio I went to see was recommended by my running club and he was fantastic although he advised alot of time off from training which at the time I did (think around 20 days in all) and gave me stretches that I did each day, he used ultrasound also. I would hesitate going back as I know he will say it needs time off everything which is obviously without a race in 2 weeks the answer, but as biking and swimming don`t hurt im reluctant to do. Ive worked so hard in training for the past 6 months a DNF I really really don`t want, my swimming is good and my cycling also and am confident that on the day jog/walk will get me through (painful as im sure it will be). I can`t believe what a downturn ive had over the past 3 weeks as I said I did the outlaw half almost effortless (1:54) run/walk with no issues or pain and I have`nt really ran much since to look after my knee and now I can`t even get to my third run/walk in a session.

Could the strengthening/ stretching exercises im doing every day be counter productive? as Ive always in the past been able to get to at least 8 miles before any pain steps in and now its around 3 miles.

Again thanks for all advice
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Ade




Joined: 27 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In that case, I would only do trigger point massage. No stretching or strength work and no running.

Find your trigger points with your thumbs and practice massaging with them, you can free up some pressure during the run that way with a minute stop if you need to.

No-one wants a DNF, or DNS, but it happens to the best and dealing with it positively is the real challenge.
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2Tri




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks, have booked sports massage this weekend and will get some advice massage wise also. youve been very helpful
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Catweazle




Joined: 10 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my clinical experience and despite what most trainers and therapists think, Glute Med is rarely weak. TFL and Glute Max are [ITB attaches to these]
This forces the brain to "glue down" the ITB to create some much needed knee stability.


Also, ITB problems are often misdiagnosed. The most common culprit I see is Bicep Femoris posteriorly fixating the fibula head, which can replicate the lateral knee pain which many incorrectly assume is an ITB issue.
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TeamT




Joined: 23 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Catweazle, that's a spot-on diagnosis for my current problems, at least according to the fantastic sports therapist (Sophie Vowden - based in Epping) I saw this weekend. I have a cocktail of niggles, probably all related ultimately to scoliosis and a leg length discrepancy, manifesting as a touch of ITBS, but with a good dose of Bicep Femoris trouble.

2Tri, I feel your pain, I really do. I am experiencing the exact same problems and within the same distances on the run, so if you see someone in an RGActive tri-suit hobbling like you on the day then say "hi". The advice I've taken has been a rigorous routine of foam-rollering and stretching and no running at all, and now that the bike distances are decreasing that should also allow some additional recovery over the next 2 weeks. I'm getting properly beaten up by the therapist every few days too.

But on a positive note, I had a similar issue in 2011, three weeks before IM Wales. It was a tough run and not a lot of fun, but I did complete it. For me it was actually a case of not walking at all as getting going again was really painful. So I just kept plodding along to a relatively respectable 4:04 marathon. I'm pretty sure I can do the same in Frankfurt if necessary.
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Catweazle




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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't do online diagnosis, need to see clients in the flesh to actually test the muscles and uncover the functional sling synergistic dominance [muscle compensations along various chains of activation]

Generally speaking though, bicep fem can be weak and fascially glued on the symptomatic knee side. So you have to figure out why then address that. Exercises on there own won't fix things. As the cause will be further up [or down] that particular chain.

If BF is weak, the posterior fibres of adductor magnus may then be forced to over work in hip extension, particularly if glute max is weak, which it usually is if you sit on your butt all day. That could then contribute to overpronation on that side, but it depends. In turn that could contribute to pelvic torsion/ SIJ probs - easy to see why when you look at where AM attaches.

Lots of other links I'd check but those are quite common. Bear in mind not everyone follows common patterns..

Btw, pelvic imbalances leading to effective leg length discrepancy are usually quite easy to address, but you need to find out WHY things are compensating, not just release things to re-align as they have been overworking [or not] for a reason.

Anyway, rather than give all my clinical knowledge away to other Tritalk therapists [active or lurking] I'll leave it at that.
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