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What an odd world we live in
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TransitionTed




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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:40 pm    Post subject: What an odd world we live in Reply with quote

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/judge-calls-victim-13-a-sexual-predator-outcry-as-41yearold-man-walks-free-after-admitting-sex-with-girl-8748494.html
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was listening to this on R4 on the way in this morning. Not once was it mentioned that a 41yr old should know better; regardless of anything else. The overriding news issue seems to be labelling the girl predatory.
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TransitionTed




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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

one of my clients is a lawyer specializing in child wellfare in general and sexual assault specifically
he was above staggered
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ed_m




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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

may get shot down in flames here .... but ....

We live in a world where media & internet seems to allow and promote sexualisation of kids at younger & younger ages (possibly they are actually maturing younger for whatever reason).
I'm quite sure some of them go out looking for fun and experience with older guys resulting in a situation where they have absolutely nothing to lose and the guy (as we see repeatedly) has everything to lose.

Not that it makes the outcome any more acceptable or mitigates their actions but speaks to me of a bigger problem with society we don't like to shine a light on, much easier to demonise each individual as they come to court time & time again.

Thankyougoodnight.
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GrahamO




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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The funny bit is reading the lefties demanding that the state unwinds all the protections of judicial independence, because they don't like what the nasty man said.

One of the great things about democracies is that you take the rough with the smooth, and you don't tilt the law in favour of either party.

It'll be forgotten in two days - thats how important the issue is. If the cricket had been going on it would have been buried in the middle of the paper.

And some other 13 year olds most certainly will be predatory but that will soon be forgotten in the mock outrage.

Here's a video of a dancing cat to distract you;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8trserWPso
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Not once was it mentioned that a 41yr old should know better; regardless of anything else.


I'm always staggered by the lack of self control that some people show, whether it's cheating on their partner with someone they meet on a night out or sleeping with a girl who's clearly much younger than them Rolling Eyes
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TransitionTed




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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
I was listening to this on R4 on the way in this morning. Not once was it mentioned that a 41yr old should know better; regardless of anything else. The overriding news issue seems to be labelling the girl predatory.


Yes, and that what I thought of as quite odd
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bulger killers were children were they not predatory? The male obviously had a problem with being sexually attracted to teenage girls if you combine that with a promiscuous willing teenager it was a crime waiting to happen.
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2 scheds




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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TM01 wrote:
The Bulger killers were children were they not predatory? The male obviously had a problem with being sexually attracted to teenage girls if you combine that with a promiscuous willing teenager it was a crime waiting to happen.



Be that as it may, it shouldn't have been a mitigating factor in sentencing and I hope the appeal court agrees that what was handed down was too lenient.

No bloody excuse and he should've known better we have a statuary age of consent for a reason.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="2 scheds"]
TM01 wrote:
, it shouldn't have been a mitigating factor in sentencing.


Clearly a judge and jury felt differently.

None of us know the full facts, only the headlines reported and I imagine everyone has their own 'perception' of the individuals in the case. The newspapers will only report those aspects which sell their papers. They won't report anything which might make the story less controversial as people won't buy the paper or read the website.

The law does have the concept of contributory negligence and its possible this was a factor - a bit like leaving your doors and windows open at night and then being burgled. It doesn't excuse the burglar one iota, but try getting an insurer to pay out. Or getting any sympathy from people around you.

Too Manu uninformed comments on this tread, including my own
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with ed_m here.

Our society has become obsessed with paedophilia to the extent where the legal debate is getting smothered by knee-jerk reaction and trial-by-media.

Of course this man did wrong, he broke the law and should be punished accordingly. However, this girl was labelled as 'predatory' by not one, but two mature, experienced practitioners of criminal law. One a barrister, the other a Judge.

To deny that young girls are sexualised and, indeed, encouraged to sexualise themselves is ignorant of not just modern society but history (it wasn't that long ago 13/14 yr old girls were getting married and having kids). You only need to walk down the modern High Street to get a sense of the sexual power naive young girls clearly enjoy wielding towards their male counterparts.

To accept the fact that a young teenage girl can act predatorily isn't, IMHO, wrong. It's become 'wrong' in the eyes of our paranoid, PC-obsessed, right-on society that assumes all 'wrong' is done by the male gender.

The only people validly capable of making statements like this girl was 'predatory' were those people present in Court and a party to all the facts of the case (eg the Barrister and Judge in question). The usual media storm typifies the cherry-picking, populist claptrap that infests our mindless modern media.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="GrahamO"]
2 scheds wrote:
TM01 wrote:
, it shouldn't have been a mitigating factor in sentencing.


Clearly a judge and jury felt differently.

None of us know the full facts, only the headlines reported and I imagine everyone has their own 'perception' of the individuals in the case. The newspapers will only report those aspects which sell their papers. They won't report anything which might make the story less controversial as people won't buy the paper or read the website.

The law does have the concept of contributory negligence and its possible this was a factor - a bit like leaving your doors and windows open at night and then being burgled. It doesn't excuse the burglar one iota, but try getting an insurer to pay out. Or getting any sympathy from people around you.

Too Manu uninformed comments on this tread, including my own


The point is that you should be able to leave your windows open if you choose without fear. Whilst I don't necessarily approve of the way in which youngsters dress and act, the guy broke the law and he should go down for it
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus wrote:
I agree with ed_m here.

Our society has become obsessed with paedophilia to the extent where the legal debate is getting smothered by knee-jerk reaction and trial-by-media.

Of course this man did wrong, he broke the law and should be punished accordingly. However, this girl was labelled as 'predatory' by not one, but two mature, experienced practitioners of criminal law. One a barrister, the other a Judge.

To deny that young girls are sexualised and, indeed, encouraged to sexualise themselves is ignorant of not just modern society but history (it wasn't that long ago 13/14 yr old girls were getting married and having kids). You only need to walk down the modern High Street to get a sense of the sexual power naive young girls clearly enjoy wielding towards their male counterparts.

To accept the fact that a young teenage girl can act predatorily isn't, IMHO, wrong. It's become 'wrong' in the eyes of our paranoid, PC-obsessed, right-on society that assumes all 'wrong' is done by the male gender.

The only people validly capable of making statements like this girl was 'predatory' were those people present in Court and a party to all the facts of the case (eg the Barrister and Judge in question). The usual media storm typifies the cherry-picking, populist claptrap that infests our mindless modern media.


Do we assume that the barrister who made these comments was defending the man?
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Gus




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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Gus wrote:
I agree with ed_m here.

Our society has become obsessed with paedophilia to the extent where the legal debate is getting smothered by knee-jerk reaction and trial-by-media.

Of course this man did wrong, he broke the law and should be punished accordingly. However, this girl was labelled as 'predatory' by not one, but two mature, experienced practitioners of criminal law. One a barrister, the other a Judge.

To deny that young girls are sexualised and, indeed, encouraged to sexualise themselves is ignorant of not just modern society but history (it wasn't that long ago 13/14 yr old girls were getting married and having kids). You only need to walk down the modern High Street to get a sense of the sexual power naive young girls clearly enjoy wielding towards their male counterparts.

To accept the fact that a young teenage girl can act predatorily isn't, IMHO, wrong. It's become 'wrong' in the eyes of our paranoid, PC-obsessed, right-on society that assumes all 'wrong' is done by the male gender.

The only people validly capable of making statements like this girl was 'predatory' were those people present in Court and a party to all the facts of the case (eg the Barrister and Judge in question). The usual media storm typifies the cherry-picking, populist claptrap that infests our mindless modern media.


Do we assume that the barrister who made these comments was defending the man?


IIRC he was acting for the CPS. As the Judge passed judgement based upon his arguments and evidence and came to the same conclusion, it must therefore be assumed his evidence satisfactorily proved the point.
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GrahamO




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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
[The point is that you should be able to leave your windows open if you choose without fear.


No, because we live in this reality, not airy fairy land, and expect others to pay for the costs of our choice of leaving windows open knowing there are bad folks around. Nobody is stopping you leaving your windows open and taking the consequences.

Such an existence as you outline has never existed as long as humans have existed, so you may as well start quoting science fiction books.

Meanwhile, back in the real world ............ take sensible precautions knowing the realities of the world in which we live, not the world in which the fairy stories say exists.
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