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explorerJC
Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14144
Location: Farthingstone
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 Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Jorgan wrote: | I wish Google Maps or Earth did a live interactive map of where ISIL troop dispositions were outside Bagdhad. It would certainly make for better viewing than your average triathlon.
There certainly seems to be a lack of capable Iraqi military units at the moment, or at least any coherent military strategy and co-operation between various military & paramilitary units. It's going to turn into a free-for-all like Syria at this rate.... the Iraqi oppostition to ISIL being as fragmented as opposition (Rebel) forces in Syria are against Assad.
I'm loathed to talk about western military assistance, as it's been pointed out many times, the Arab world need to get their heads together and tackle this problem themselves. All the west does is perpetuate the issue. The Arab nations have the technology and money to defeat organisations like ISIL, but there seems to be no real appetite to work together to achieve common goals, be it regionally or nationally.
Therein lies the problem. |
The problem is that when you found a society on a book of teachings and then a group in that society takes you at your word you can hardly cry foul. For the Muslim world to resolve this they have to depart from the very things that under pin their religion.
This is exactly what Christendom had to go through and post WW1 it has only raised it's ugly head in fits and starts although, of course, WW2 can also be partly put into this category. The only plus side for Christians is that they went through this before killing became so efficient .
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Jorgan
Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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You seem to be suggesting that the region is 'several' centuries behind 
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explorerJC
Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Whisk
Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 8362
Location: London
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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It seems like any Western military intervention is going to have unintended consequences in terms of increasing support for the radical groups in the region and in the West. I bet the politicians wish they'd left the old dictators in place and not invaded Iraq and encouraged the Arab Spring uprisings 
Better the devil you know, and all that 
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TransitionTed
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 21430
Location: On It Lika A Car Bonnet
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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One of my favs from the critically acclaimed "Great Book of Middle Eastern Gags"
God decides he has had enough of humanity and decides to end the world. Being a compassionate deity he chooses 3 main leaders, Obama, Cameron and Yitzhak Shamir, informs them of his idea and allows each leader 2 weeks to prepare their people for the rapture.
Each address their nation: Obama says "Fellow Americans there is good news and bad. The good news is that God exists, the bad news is that the world will end in 2 weeks."
Cameron addresses his people similarly: "I have good news, God is alive, the bad news is that we're all dead in 2 weeks."
Shamir addresses. his people as such "People of Israel, I have some good news and some really great news. The good news is that God does indeed exist and the really great news is that the Palestinian intifada will end in 2 weeks."
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explorerJC
Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14144
Location: Farthingstone
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Whisk wrote: | It seems like any Western military intervention is going to have unintended consequences in terms of increasing support for the radical groups in the region and in the West. I bet the politicians wish they'd left the old dictators in place and not invaded Iraq and encouraged the Arab Spring uprisings
Better the devil you know, and all that |
Yep....
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TransitionTed
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 21430
Location: On It Lika A Car Bonnet
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| explorerJC wrote: | | Whisk wrote: | It seems like any Western military intervention is going to have unintended consequences in terms of increasing support for the radical groups in the region and in the West. I bet the politicians wish they'd left the old dictators in place and not invaded Iraq and encouraged the Arab Spring uprisings
Better the devil you know, and all that |
Yep.... |
Except of course it's not unintended, the consequences of military intervention, be it a strike or a coupe d'grace are more than well documented in the aftermath of similar debacles, it's inevitable rather than unintended.
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explorerJC
Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14144
Location: Farthingstone
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| TransitionTed wrote: | | explorerJC wrote: | | Whisk wrote: | It seems like any Western military intervention is going to have unintended consequences in terms of increasing support for the radical groups in the region and in the West. I bet the politicians wish they'd left the old dictators in place and not invaded Iraq and encouraged the Arab Spring uprisings
Better the devil you know, and all that |
Yep.... |
Except of course it's not unintended, the consequences of military intervention, be it a strike or a coupe d'grace are more than well documented in the aftermath of similar debacles, it's inevitable rather than unintended. |
It's still un intended Ted....it may be woefully naive, but I am sure even in the worst moments of our leaders decision making processes, none of them wanted this to happen...
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explorerJC
Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14144
Location: Farthingstone
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| TransitionTed wrote: | One of my favs from the critically acclaimed "Great Book of Middle Eastern Gags"
God decides he has had enough of humanity and decides to end the world. Being a compassionate deity he chooses 3 main leaders, Obama, Cameron and Yitzhak Shamir, informs them of his idea and allows each leader 2 weeks to prepare their people for the rapture.
Each address their nation: Obama says "Fellow Americans there is good news and bad. The good news is that God exists, the bad news is that the world will end in 2 weeks."
Cameron addresses his people similarly: "I have good news, God is alive, the bad news is that we're all dead in 2 weeks."
Shamir addresses. his people as such "People of Israel, I have some good news and some really great news. The good news is that God does indeed exist and the really great news is that the Palestinian intifada will end in 2 weeks."
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I typed a lengthy ish response to this but my net failed......so I will just say that the absence of the other main monotheism in this joke speaks volumes...
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TransitionTed
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 21430
Location: On It Lika A Car Bonnet
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| explorerJC wrote: | | TransitionTed wrote: | | explorerJC wrote: | | Whisk wrote: | It seems like any Western military intervention is going to have unintended consequences in terms of increasing support for the radical groups in the region and in the West. I bet the politicians wish they'd left the old dictators in place and not invaded Iraq and encouraged the Arab Spring uprisings
Better the devil you know, and all that |
Yep.... |
Except of course it's not unintended, the consequences of military intervention, be it a strike or a coupe d'grace are more than well documented in the aftermath of similar debacles, it's inevitable rather than unintended. |
It's still un intended Ted....it may be woefully naive, but I am sure even in the worst moments of our leaders decision making processes, none of them wanted this to happen... |
I'd love to agree, but I can't, as unintended smacks of some sort of unknown or accidental consequences, when the consequences of retaliation has hardly gone unpunished in the past.
But you could call it criminal naivity if you like.
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TransitionTed
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
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Location: On It Lika A Car Bonnet
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| explorerJC wrote: | | TransitionTed wrote: | One of my favs from the critically acclaimed "Great Book of Middle Eastern Gags"
God decides he has had enough of humanity and decides to end the world. Being a compassionate deity he chooses 3 main leaders, Obama, Cameron and Yitzhak Shamir, informs them of his idea and allows each leader 2 weeks to prepare their people for the rapture.
Each address their nation: Obama says "Fellow Americans there is good news and bad. The good news is that God exists, the bad news is that the world will end in 2 weeks."
Cameron addresses his people similarly: "I have good news, God is alive, the bad news is that we're all dead in 2 weeks."
Shamir addresses. his people as such "People of Israel, I have some good news and some really great news. The good news is that God does indeed exist and the really great news is that the Palestinian intifada will end in 2 weeks."
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I typed a lengthy ish response to this but my net failed......so I will just say that the absence of the other main monotheism in this joke speaks volumes... |
Ok, here's another one then
2 Iranian men were waiting in a long line outside an iranian bakery for a loaf of bread when the first man suddenly throws up his arms in disgust.
"Oh!" He shouts, "I've had enough of waiting around for food, it's demeaning. I'm off to kill the Ayatollah."
The second man quietly applauds him as he storms off.
Next day the second man is disappointed to see his friend shuffling back into the bread queue.
"Hey" he says to the first man, "I thought you were off to kill the ayatollah."
"I was," the first man replies, "but there was a queue."
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explorerJC
Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14144
Location: Farthingstone
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| TransitionTed wrote: | | explorerJC wrote: | | TransitionTed wrote: | One of my favs from the critically acclaimed "Great Book of Middle Eastern Gags"
God decides he has had enough of humanity and decides to end the world. Being a compassionate deity he chooses 3 main leaders, Obama, Cameron and Yitzhak Shamir, informs them of his idea and allows each leader 2 weeks to prepare their people for the rapture.
Each address their nation: Obama says "Fellow Americans there is good news and bad. The good news is that God exists, the bad news is that the world will end in 2 weeks."
Cameron addresses his people similarly: "I have good news, God is alive, the bad news is that we're all dead in 2 weeks."
Shamir addresses. his people as such "People of Israel, I have some good news and some really great news. The good news is that God does indeed exist and the really great news is that the Palestinian intifada will end in 2 weeks."
|
I typed a lengthy ish response to this but my net failed......so I will just say that the absence of the other main monotheism in this joke speaks volumes... |
Ok, here's another one then
2 Iranian men were waiting in a long line outside an iranian bakery for a loaf of bread when the first man suddenly throws up his arms in disgust.
"Oh!" He shouts, "I've had enough of waiting around for food, it's demeaning. I'm off to kill the Ayatollah."
The second man quietly applauds him as he storms off.
Next day the second man is disappointed to see his friend shuffling back into the bread queue.
"Hey" he says to the first man, "I thought you were off to kill the ayatollah."
"I was," the first man replies, "but there was a queue." |
but that's not blasphemous...
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explorerJC
Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14144
Location: Farthingstone
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| TransitionTed wrote: | | explorerJC wrote: | | TransitionTed wrote: | | explorerJC wrote: | | Whisk wrote: | It seems like any Western military intervention is going to have unintended consequences in terms of increasing support for the radical groups in the region and in the West. I bet the politicians wish they'd left the old dictators in place and not invaded Iraq and encouraged the Arab Spring uprisings
Better the devil you know, and all that |
Yep.... |
Except of course it's not unintended, the consequences of military intervention, be it a strike or a coupe d'grace are more than well documented in the aftermath of similar debacles, it's inevitable rather than unintended. |
It's still un intended Ted....it may be woefully naive, but I am sure even in the worst moments of our leaders decision making processes, none of them wanted this to happen... |
I'd love to agree, but I can't, as unintended smacks of some sort of unknown or accidental consequences, when the consequences of retaliation has hardly gone unpunished in the past.
But you could call it criminal naivity if you like. |
if it's not unintended then it was intentional.....and i hope to which ever god you choose, this was not the case....
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TransitionTed
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 21430
Location: On It Lika A Car Bonnet
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| explorerJC wrote: | | TransitionTed wrote: | | explorerJC wrote: | | TransitionTed wrote: | One of my favs from the critically acclaimed "Great Book of Middle Eastern Gags"
God decides he has had enough of humanity and decides to end the world. Being a compassionate deity he chooses 3 main leaders, Obama, Cameron and Yitzhak Shamir, informs them of his idea and allows each leader 2 weeks to prepare their people for the rapture.
Each address their nation: Obama says "Fellow Americans there is good news and bad. The good news is that God exists, the bad news is that the world will end in 2 weeks."
Cameron addresses his people similarly: "I have good news, God is alive, the bad news is that we're all dead in 2 weeks."
Shamir addresses. his people as such "People of Israel, I have some good news and some really great news. The good news is that God does indeed exist and the really great news is that the Palestinian intifada will end in 2 weeks."
|
I typed a lengthy ish response to this but my net failed......so I will just say that the absence of the other main monotheism in this joke speaks volumes... |
Ok, here's another one then
2 Iranian men were waiting in a long line outside an iranian bakery for a loaf of bread when the first man suddenly throws up his arms in disgust.
"Oh!" He shouts, "I've had enough of waiting around for food, it's demeaning. I'm off to kill the Ayatollah."
The second man quietly applauds him as he storms off.
Next day the second man is disappointed to see his friend shuffling back into the bread queue.
"Hey" he says to the first man, "I thought you were off to kill the ayatollah."
"I was," the first man replies, "but there was a queue." |
but that's not blasphemous... |
I think the first could as easily be seen as highlighting the middle east's self preoccupation where local issues are inflated beyond all proportion, rather than a slight to God or Allah.
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explorerJC
Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14144
Location: Farthingstone
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| TransitionTed wrote: | | explorerJC wrote: | | TransitionTed wrote: | | explorerJC wrote: | | TransitionTed wrote: | One of my favs from the critically acclaimed "Great Book of Middle Eastern Gags"
God decides he has had enough of humanity and decides to end the world. Being a compassionate deity he chooses 3 main leaders, Obama, Cameron and Yitzhak Shamir, informs them of his idea and allows each leader 2 weeks to prepare their people for the rapture.
Each address their nation: Obama says "Fellow Americans there is good news and bad. The good news is that God exists, the bad news is that the world will end in 2 weeks."
Cameron addresses his people similarly: "I have good news, God is alive, the bad news is that we're all dead in 2 weeks."
Shamir addresses. his people as such "People of Israel, I have some good news and some really great news. The good news is that God does indeed exist and the really great news is that the Palestinian intifada will end in 2 weeks."
|
I typed a lengthy ish response to this but my net failed......so I will just say that the absence of the other main monotheism in this joke speaks volumes... |
Ok, here's another one then
2 Iranian men were waiting in a long line outside an iranian bakery for a loaf of bread when the first man suddenly throws up his arms in disgust.
"Oh!" He shouts, "I've had enough of waiting around for food, it's demeaning. I'm off to kill the Ayatollah."
The second man quietly applauds him as he storms off.
Next day the second man is disappointed to see his friend shuffling back into the bread queue.
"Hey" he says to the first man, "I thought you were off to kill the ayatollah."
"I was," the first man replies, "but there was a queue." |
but that's not blasphemous... |
I think the first could as easily be seen as highlighting the middle east's self preoccupation where local issues are inflated beyond all proportion, rather than a slight to God or Allah. |
or even our preoccupation with and occupation of the middle east....
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